IAM1246 – Thought of Combining Medical Degree and Culinary Arts? Let’s hear from Chef Dr. Mike

Michael S. Fenster, MD, better known as Chef Dr. Mike, is one of a handful of physicians worldwide to hold both culinary and medical degrees and is the only Interventional Cardiologist and Professional Chef to do so. He is also the only cardiologist with joint academic appointments in both the Medical and Culinary Arts. He is a board-certified Interventional Cardiologist, Professional Chef, and Professor of Culinary Medicine at The University of Montana where he teaches the same.

• CEO Story: As a kid with Mom in the kitchen cooking with her. It was natural for him to get employment in the food industry and work his way up. He was taking up a Medical degree while keeping his passion for food. Successfully combined and practiced both fields.
• Business Service: Culinary Medicine Course which is made available online. Food that is good and healthy for your body. Including how to source them and read labels.
• Secret Sauce: The ability to explain the complex part of medicine and apply it to the food industry.
• CEO Hack: Attitude of gratitude. Maintaining a good positive relationship with other people through gratitude.
• CEO Nugget: Give yourself patience. Be persistent, act. Serve yourself when the time is right.
• CEO Defined: Being in charge of yourself. Being in charge of your own story, writing your own story.

Website: www.chefdrmike.com

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00:02 – Intro

Are you ready to hear business stories and learn effective ways to build relationships, generate sales, and level up your business from awesome CEOs, entrepreneurs, and founders without listening to a long, long, long interview? If so, you've come to the right place. Gresh values your time and is ready to share with you the valuable info you're in search of. This is the I AM CEO podcast.

00:41 – Gresham Harkless

Hello. Hello. Hello. This is Gretch from the I AM CEO podcast. I have a very special guest on the show today. I have Doctor Michael Fenster of chefdoctormike.com dot. Doctor Michael. It's great to have you on the show.

00:51 – Dr. Michael Fenster

Oh, Gretchen, thanks so much. I'm so excited to be here.

00:53 – Gresham Harkless

Yeah, super excited to have you on. Before we jump into the interview, I want to read a little bit more about chef Doctor Mike so you can hear about all the awesome things that he's doing. Chef Doctor Mike is one of the handful of physicians worldwide to hold both culinary and medical degrees and is the only interventional cardiologist and professional chef to do so.

He is also the only cardiologist with joint academic appointments in both the medical and culinary arts. He's a board-certified interventional cardiologist, professional chef, and professor of culinary medicine at the University of Montana, where he teaches the same. Chef Doctor Mike, great to have you on the show. Are you ready to speak to the I AM CEO community?

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01:30 – Dr. Michael Fenster

I am ready, yes.

01:31 – Gresham Harkless

I'm looking forward to it as well. What I wanted to do to kick it all off is to rewind the clock a little bit, hear a little bit more about how you got started, what I call your CEO story.

01:39 – Dr. Michael Fenster

I think, like a lot of people, when we look back on things, we see how we were shaped to wind up where we are today, even though we didn't know it at the time. And it goes back to a great quote by Mark Twain where he said, the two most important days in your life are the day you were born and the day you discover what you were born to do. And so all those formative experiences that have led me on this journey where I am now, they started when I was a little kid with my mom in the kitchen, you know, coming home after school and cooking with her and recreating recipes with Julia Child and Graham care, you know, et cetera.

But when I went off to college, it was very natural, man, for me to get employment in the food industry. I thought I was a pretty darn good cook back in the day. So I got to start as a dishwasher and was there for six months before I even got an opportunity to get on the line and sort of work my way up to run in the back what we call the back of the house today. An executive chef at a great restaurant. And again, at the time, I didn't realize it, but it was really what we would come to know today as a farm-to-table restaurant.

Eventually went back, and got a culinary degree in gourmet cooking and catering, but from college went off and became an interventional cardiologist, kept my love of food, and then had some personal challenges with my health that forced me to look at what I had gotten away from, which was the delicious, wholesome food that I grew up with, that I cooked with, that I knew about, and really into the convenience factor because I was working insane hours, pushing myself, and took its toll when they said, hey, you know what?

At a very young age, you need joint replacements. And so I said, well, I'm going to hold off. And I did get an operation where they cleaned out the joint, but they didn't replace it and just got on track of really looking at the data of food and health and how this affects us, our relationship with food. And I'm proud to say that was over 20 years ago. And I can't do some of the things that used to do back then, basketball, and jogging, but I can hike the trails of Montana for 8 hours. I can ride my bike in the mountains of Montana for 20 miles.

So I feel pretty fortunate. After getting that information began to share that with patients and realized with a great opportunity at the university that culinary medicine is something for everybody. It's not for doctors to prescribe like a pharmaceutical. It's not just for chefs. You don't have to be a culinary wizard to do it, but all of us must find and a great way to establish a relationship that leads to health, wellness, longevity, and happiness.

04:11 – Gresham Harkless

Yeah. I appreciate you so much for sharing that. I wanted to drill down a little bit more and hear a little bit more about how you work with your clients. I know you touched on it a little bit, but I wanted to hear a little bit more about how you serve the people that you work with.

04:20 – Dr. Michael Fenster

The first thing that we do is offer the culinary medicine course. So we teach that at the university. It's a three-credit graduate-level course in either June or July. A year ago, we were able to take that, and it was fortuitous with all the things that happened with COVID and people can't show up in the classroom and make it an online course that's available to the public. So we're working on increasing our platform so that we can get the word out about culinary medicine and the introduction courses.

It's sort of, you know, like going to a restaurant and getting, you know, a bunch of appetizers. I call it sort of the tapas course, right? I go down and you go to a Spanish place, and you're going to have a glass of wine. Wine, a beer, and then just all these wonderful small plates that give you a sample of what the cuisine is. And that's kind of what were doing in the introduction course and we are building on that to go much more in-depth. So from that, we provide a basic knowledge base.

But then we also, in the university and through other mechanisms, do what I call the practical culinary Medicine avenue. There's kind of two phases to culinary medicine, which is why, why culinary medicine? Why can't we just use nutrition? What are these other things? Why do I want to source organic vegetables and conventional vegetables? Is there a difference so on and so forth? So that is for, you know, really for people who want to get in and then help others who, they need to know that. Why have that knowledge base?

Healthcare professionals that we work with to work with their clients chefs. We have a partnership with the American Culinary Federation and a program called Culinary Medicine Approved Kitchen, which is an approved process that's recognized by the American Culinary Federation, which is the largest culinary certifying organization in the country. Then if you're a chef, you can get yourself certified. You get your kitchen certified, and then the public can find you.

And when I go to eat at your restaurant, I know I'm getting the kind of food that I want to put in my body that's good for me. So that helps independent chefs compete with some of these fast food-type places. And then there's the other aspect of it, which is, I think, for a lot of folks, which is like, you know, I dont need to know this study, that study. I just need to know how to do it. And that's what we call kind of practical culinary medicine.

So that gets into the things I learned in culinary school, the things I learned as a culinary professional, which is how do I source it and what does it mean? And how do I read these labels, and then how do I hold a knife and not cut my fingers off, you know, important things like that? And so we take it with those two arms, if you will, in mind. And that's how we bring it to the folks.

06:53 – Gresham Harkless

I almost wanted to ask you this, and I don't know if this is part of, you know, culinary medicine as well, too. Do you feel like, I guess what sets you apart and makes you unique in everything that you do is your ability to be able to kind of break down what can be those complex things and simplify it for people to understand? It sounds at different levels, but of course, if somebody wants to go into the weeds, you can explain all those aspects. Do you think that kind of sets you apart and makes you unique?

07:15 – Dr. Michael Fenster

Yeah, you know, I feel that that's my calling in life. You know, that's my mission is to wait in there sort of sword in hand, take on this conventional wisdom. You know, I said, I've been doing this for over a decade ago, and, you know, when I wrote the fallacy of the calorie almost a decade ago, and as an interventional cardiologist, I said, you can eat red meat if you source it correctly. Don't pay any attention to the cholesterol level in your food because it has no impact on your blood lipid levels.

And it wasn't until I think, 2019 that the government pulled dietary cholesterol guidelines off their government recommendations because they went back and said there's no data here. And the data that we do have shows that the cholesterol you eat in your food doesn't affect your blood lipid levels doesn't affect your risk, you know, anywhere from 50 depending on the study to 75% of the people that I deal with at 02:00 a.m. as an interventional cardiologist, when I go in to open their arteries because they're having a heart attack, their cholesterol levels are fine, they meet guidelines.

So clearly there's something else that's of concern. And so, yeah, I'm the one that goes in there, and I'm happy to get as in-depth and discuss it at the molecular level as people want. On the other hand, a lot of folks, just want to know how to cook it. And as a chef, I appreciate that. So I do feel very uniquely qualified because I think in so much of the food and health recommendations and perspective that has been taken by mainstream Western medicine over the last really 50 to 75 years, there's no loving it, man. It's all dry, clinical.

It's trying to do this macronutrient stuff, and it's just food. As I said, we love it, we eat it, we want to enjoy it. And they pushed us into a place where we eat things, these sort of ultra-processed foods, in a convenience culture mentality, and combined with construction of ultra-processed foods, because one of the definitions, they have a very specific definition as a group for food, is that they're constructed to be what we call hyper-palatable.

And by that, I mean you build layers of sugar, salt, and fat, because when we eat those foods, it lights up the dopaminergic area of our brain, which is our reward center. When our brain rewards us, we feel good, and it secretes things like that and makes us feel happy. And so these foods are engineered to light us up like a freaking Christmas tree. But in a way, it also controls us, like Pavlov's dogs, and it addicts us. Particularly the sugar content in the modern Western diet. I mean, 15% of the calories the average American eats are all from added sugar in their food.

09:57 – Gresham Harkless

Evan, you know, that's crazy, and I appreciate you so much for sharing that. So I wanted to switch gears a little bit, and I wanted to ask you for what I call a CEO hack. So this could be like an app, a book, or a habit that you have, but what's something that makes you more effective and efficient?

10:10 – Dr. Michael Fenster

What I think makes me efficient is gratitude. And I'll explain that in that even when I sit down or I have that Sicilian pizza, I'm going to take a moment and have an attitude of gratitude, for everything that's given a life so that I can eat. And I'm also going to thank all those people who brought it to me, even though I may not know them. And it changes my mindset. And I continually try to go back to that and all the things that I do.

And I think it ties into what you said, which is beautiful, because really when you're successful in business, a successful CEO, all the successful business people I know they have a head for numbers, but they're even better about relationships, business-like life, like our relationship with food. To me, it's all about the relationships we have in our lives. And that's just, I think, a fundamental reality of the universe.

And so I want my relationships to be powered by gratitude. We have sadness in our lives. People come and go, and bad things happen, and people friends, and companions leave us. So sadness is part of life. It gives us contrast like a meal sweet and sour. But suffering is optional. We cause ourselves to suffer. So am I sort of an antidote to that is gratitude.

It also turns out that studies have shown when we maintain that attitude of gratitude, that core like what we call maybe an aspect of mindfulness study which we actually can do over food, it's called MBE. So mindfulness-based eating awareness techniques help preserve our cognitive function as shown through a brain mass. It lowers measurable markers of inflammation. It's helping us heal ourselves.

And so I love that because then when I'm working every day and having these relationships and interactions with people, when they can be positive and have something, you know, that interaction we've had today, you know, hopefully, I'm helping you heal, but you're helping me heal because you've got me in a great headspace and that's a great spirit space and that turns out to be a great space for our bodies. Natural healing.

12:13 – Gresham Harkless

Yeah, well I appreciate you breaking down that so much. Of course, I appreciate you for being on the show as well too. And so I want to ask you now for what I call a CEO nugget. So this is a little bit more of a word of wisdom or piece of advice. It might be something if you were to hop into a time machine, you would tell your younger business self, don't.

12:29 – Dr. Michael Fenster

Sweat it, have patience with yourself, give yourself patience, forgive yourself, but also be persistent and act. Serve yourself when the time is right.

12:39 – Gresham Harkless

Nice. I love that. And so now I want to ask you my absolute favorite question, which is the definition of what it means to be a CEO. And we're hoping to have different, quote-unquote CEO's on the show. So Chef Doctor Mike, what does being a CEO mean to you?

12:51 – Dr. Michael Fenster

Being a CEO means being in charge of yourself. One of the concepts of martial arts is being aware so you're not manipulated. You're in charge of yourself. And I see people today, a word or a label is thrown out there or they read something and they get just bent out of shape. And I always think I could say, wow, look how that person is letting what somebody else said or something that they realize just put them in a horrible space.

And so be in charge of yourself. Doesn't mean you have to like it, doesn't mean you have to agree. But boy, they're not going to control me. They're going to yank my chain and pull me around. And because I've had that, you know, what you say is garbage. Oh, you're just doing this, you know, one time I wrote an article in the Atlantic for salt giving the data on salt, which is contrary to the popular notion.

And I did the data and, you know, all these people wrote down how I was taking money from the salt industry. I didn't even get a free song. I never talked to anybody in there. It's like, this is what the data is. This is what it shows us. Let's talk about it. I'm not going to jump in and let them pull me into a space I don't want to be in. So what I'd say is being a CEO means being in charge of your own story.

Don't let somebody else write it for you. You write the story. So at the end of the day, when the book is closing, you can say, you know what? That is a book and a story worth somebody making a movie about being a CEO means writing your own story. Don't let other people do that.

14:21 – Gresham Harkless

I love that. And especially when we sometimes forget, when we look down on our hands and realize that we have the pencil or pen right in front of us and we get that opportunity to kind of write and create that, there are going to be people that don't necessarily like that, but you have to be true to your mission, true to what it is that you're doing and all the awesome things.

So what I wanted to do is just pass you the mic, so to speak, just to see if there's anything additional that you can let our readers and listeners know and of course, how best people can get hold of you and find about all the awesome things you were working on. Sure.

14:46 – Dr. Michael Fenster

And I want to build on one thing to close out. Don't forget, you can go back and change that story, too. It's easy to get trapped in things that happen to us and be a victim. Certainly, I was very bullied as a new kid moving around, which is why I found sanctuary cooking with my mom because I had no friends. When I came home from school, there was nobody to play with. And yet, when I look back on that story now, if that had not happened, I wouldn't be where I am today.

So I don't see that in the light of, gosh, I was a bullied victim. I see that in the light of what a wonderful opportunity and lesson to find healing in food, even though I didn't know it at the time. If you find yourself in one of the stories, go back and reclaim it. Make it yours. And folks can find out what I'm doing at www.chefdoctormikechefdrmike.com.

follow us on social media I'm just me, so if you want to connect on social media, I'm on call and had a bad couple of days. Give me a few days to get back to you. But I answer everything myself. Hopefully, see everyone out there in cyberspace.

15:45 – Gresham Harkless

Appreciate that Doctor Mike. We will have the links and information in the show. Notes I love and appreciate you sharing your story and everything that made you who you are. I think so many times we touched on it a little bit, but I'm a big believer in binary. Sometimes in experience, the good you have to understand, the bad you have to go through that stuff and all those things shape who you are, so you can't have one without the other.

So I love that, that story, your time with your mom, all those things have shaped you into what you are now and what you're able to do to make that impact. So thank you so much my friend and I hope you have a phenomenal rest of the day.

16:15 – Outro

Thank you for listening to the I AM CEO Podcast powered by Blue 16 Media. Tune in next time and visit us at iamceo.co I AM CEO is not just a phrase, it's a community. Be sure to follow us on social media and subscribe to our podcast on iTunes Google Play and everywhere you listen to podcasts, SUBSCRIBE, and leave us a five-star rating grab CEO gear at www.ceogear.co. This has been the I AM CEO Podcast with Gresham Harkless. Thank you for listening.

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