IAM2431 – Investigator Develops Programs to Address Effective Interviewing and Investigations

Mark Anderson has had a distinguished career in law enforcement and investigations, spanning over 30 years.

His roles have included working as a Senior Special Agent for the U.S. Department of Justice, the FBI, and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, along with experience as a forensic chemist. He also served as the Deputy Inspector General for New York State.

After retiring, Mark and his wife co-founded Anderson Investigative Associates, a small business that provides tailored training for interviews and investigations to various clients.

Mark emphasizes the importance of non-confrontational interview techniques, explaining that effective communication goes beyond law enforcement and applies to everyday human interactions and business dealings.

Mark uses real-world scenarios to teach interviewing, often making parallels to childhood experiences of dishonesty. The firm coined the term LLPOF (Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire) to describe individuals who are being dishonest during interviews.

He also points out the significance of reciprocity and credibility in interviews, explaining that showing integrity and consistency helps build trust and increases the likelihood of getting truthful responses.

Mark underscores the value of surrounding oneself with experts who can help in areas where a business owner may be weaker.

Website: Anderson Investigative Associates

LinkedIn: Mark A. Anderson

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Mark Anderson Teaser 00:00

We custom design programs for our clients, no matter what niche they're in. We focus on the nuances that make their organization unique.

And address obstacles that they perceive when it comes to interviewing, investigations, and audits.

With these in mind, we develop programs that are specific for that entity.

Intro 00:18

Are you ready to hear business stories and learn effective ways to build relationships, generate sales, and level up your business from awesome CEOs, entrepreneurs, and founders without listening to a long, long, long interview?

If so, you've come to the right place. Gresh values your time and is ready to share with you the valuable info you're in search of. This is the I AM CEO Podcast.

Gresham Harkless 00:43

Hello, hello, hello. This is Gresh from the I AM CEO Podcast. And I have a very special guest on the show today.

I have Mark Anderson of Anderson Investigative Associates. Mark, it's awesome to have you on the show.

Mark Anderson 00:55

Thanks for having me. I really appreciate Gresham.

Gresham Harkless 00:57

No problem. I appreciate you for taking some time out. And what I want to do is just read a little bit more about Mark so you can hear about all the awesome things that he's doing.

Mark has two degrees in Chemistry and currently works as the director of training and development at Anderson Investigative Associates.

Prior to that, he served as a Program Manager and Instructor for the Inspector General Criminal Investigator Academy at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in the Behavioral Science Division.

He has served as a Senior Special Agent for the U.S. Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General, the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission, Office of Investigations, and the Federal Bureau of Investigations.

Additionally, he served as a Deputy Inspector General and Director of Internal Audit for the New York State Office of the Inspector General and as a forensic chemist for the New York State Police.

Mark, are you ready to speak to the I AM CEO community?

Mark Anderson 01:51

I absolutely am.

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Gresham Harkless 01:52

Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. So let's do it. So I know I touched on it a little bit, but I wanted to hear a little bit more about what I call your CEO story. And we'll let you start your bit.

Mark Anderson 01:59

Okay, well, it's a long story. And clearly from reading through my bio, I'm pretty old. I've been around for a while.

And I don't know if you get anything out of that bio other than I can't hold a job for very long.

But I spent over 30 years in the law enforcement investigation and audit arena, retired from the federal government, having spent the last five years, as you said, teaching interview and interrogation skills to investigators, auditors, inspectors, and others.

This training was provided all over the country to a very diverse audience. And I realized in doing that over that five years that there was an incredible need for effective non-confrontational interview training in all facets of the private and public sector and felt a calling and a desire to meet it.

So one day after retirement, we started Anderson Investigative Associates, a small boutique firm to provide customized interview and investigation training to our clients.

I say we because my wife and I started the business together. She's in fact the CEO and runs the business and finance side of things.

And I'm the curriculum developer and trainer. In a later comment I'm going to speak to credibility and integrity.

So I wanted to make it very clear right up front that to show that there's consistency in my life.

I'm in charge of nothing. That's why she runs the business and I work for her.

And it just goes across the board. It makes things much easier at this point in my life.

Gresham Harkless 03:31

Awesome. I love it. I love it. So I know you touched on it a little bit and I know I touched on it a little bit, when I read your bio.

And I appreciate not having to say all the acronyms and everything because I know that is government speak a lot.

So I had a chance to actually say it out. So could you tell us a little bit more about what you're doing with your business?

Mark Anderson 03:47

Sure, sure. As I kind of indicated, we're small enough that we custom design programs for our clients, no matter what niche they're in.

We focus on the nuances that make their organization unique and address obstacles that they perceive when it comes to interviewing, investigations, and audits.

With these in mind, we develop programs that are specific for that entity. We build the programs, they run usually a day to anywhere a day to a week in length, depending on how much training they want to receive.

The program address things like effective interviewing, report development, interview planning, how to ask questions better, how to handle denials that you might get in the interview setting.

And the best ways to present evidence, and the importance of themes and persuasion in the interview.

In addition to this, we teach things like public corruption, employee misconduct, ethical decision-making, effective leadership skills, and a plethora of other topics.

The key here, it's not necessarily, it sounds like very law enforcement related, but most of the examples that I give in the classes that I teach have to do with having kids.

And whether you had kids or you were children at one time, what we're looking at is those things that kids do when they're not completely honest with us.

So, you get in the interview environment with auditors and you can't say things like subject and suspect.

So we coined our own term for it, which is LLPOF. And I know you're a little younger than me, Gresham, but I don't know if you remember the acronym, liar, liar, pants on fire.

Gresham Harkless 05:21

I do remember that.

Mark Anderson 05:22

It's really anybody that's sitting across from us that's choosing not to be honest with us. It applies, it has application in the sales arena, it has an application in every area of life, actually.

So, once we were asked to develop, one of the things we were asked to develop, and we don't use the same stuff all the time.

But our clients will come to us and say, we're very interested in a block on this or a block on that.

I was asked to develop a block on the law of reciprocity and how it applies in the interviewing realm.

So I developed that for this group, and I've been amazed how many times since then other groups have said, you know what, I'd really like to have that presented to our audience as well.

So it helps me to focus more, helps me not to get locked into stuff that I have that's standby material, but we develop new material all the time.

Gresham Harkless 06:14

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. And you kind of already touched on because I was going to ask you when you say interview, are you talking about any type of interview?

Because I know when we talked a little bit offline, we were just talking about, I guess, at the general basis of a human interaction.

And being able to kind of make sure that you can read people's cues and understand what's going on.

Mark Anderson 06:29

That's exactly right. And that's a hard thing. It's really a hard thing. When I come out of the investigation realm, I've had audit experience.

But when I go into auditors who are essentially accountants, one of the issues that I run into all the time is, well, but you're talking about investigations.

And really that's not true. I'm talking about any human interaction. I mean, I could ask you people you've run into in your life who were not particularly honest with you or they were not upfront with you.

It would give you the ability to better be able to read that. We talk about non-verbals, we'll look at non-verbals.

The non-verbals are not really good tools for that. Even the best trained investigators are about 51% accurate with non-verbals.

But when you take the non-verbals and fit them with the verbals, it's much easier to detect deception in the way people say things.

So, one of the things we do, we use a lot of videos in our training. There aren't a lot of videos out there of interviewing except in the homicide realm.

So we have a lot of murder cases. So you go in to teach auditors or white collar crime investigators and they're like, well, this doesn't apply to us. This is murder.

But the truth is that a liar looks like a liar and looks like a liar. So some of those murders I look at on the screen, I say, oh, that looks like my son. Because he has those same things that he does when he distorts.

Gresham Harkless 07:54

And now I want to ask you for what I call your secret sauce. And this might be for you or your organization. But what do you feel kind of sets you guys apart?

Mark Anderson 07:59

I think the thing that sets us apart, it really is our small size. Because we've talked about expanding at times and bringing other people in.

I've had people teach my stuff before. I'm not really happy necessarily with the way they teach it.

I think I'm too invested in it. And at this point in my career, I'm not really looking to do that. I'm looking to provide a very unique product.

And that product includes us being small size so I can develop it. So I think that secret sauce is partly building these programs from the ground up.

It makes a lot more work for us, but we can do this because of the extensive experience and exposure we've had to so many organizations and so many styles.

We see our competitors are many of the big box providers in the interviewing realm. They provide the same training wherever they go.

They go into Home Depot, they provide that training. They go into a government agency, they provide that training.

They cover important subjects, no question, but they force attendees to fit it into their own matrix.

And we feel that customizing it using their language, their examples, we make that incorporating the process of our training much easier and therefore more effective and seamless in application.

Gresham Harkless 09:11

I wanted to switch gears a little bit and ask you for what I call a CEO hack. And this might be an Apple book or a habit that you have, but it's something that makes you more effective and efficient.

Mark Anderson 09:19

Yeah, and this is the one I was talking about earlier, about talking about the issue of integrity and credibility.

I would have to say that hearkens to that issue completely, because so much else comes off of that.

Incumbent in that is responsiveness to our potential clients. We have to have that integrity and credibility when we deal with them.

If we're not meeting, if we don't see a fit, I'm not taking the job. And that doesn't happen a lot.

When there's money on the table, take the job, even though it's not a good fit, I'm not going there.

We teach these two topics all the time in the interviewing realm. Research shows that over 60% of, I'll call them bad guys, the people that are distorting in the interview room.

Over 60% of bad guys admit to what they did because of the credibility and integrity of the interviewer.

So because that person sitting across from them is being honest and showing integrity with them, they're able to admit to what they did.

Think about it in your own life. If you're talking to somebody who has lied to you in the past, how much do you actually share with that person?

You'd be foolish if you shared a lot with them. So having that integrity and credibility and demonstrate it in the way we do interviewing, and especially in the non-confrontational realm, gets us success.

When you look at that statistic, that's the number one tool in the tool belt. And we best not give it up in the realm of interviewing or in life in general.

What do they say? Integrity is the only thing you can take to the grave with you. And I think I'm going to just keep mine. Yeah, you might as well.

Gresham Harkless 10:46

That makes perfect sense. No, it's funny because that's what you touched on as far as the reciprocity, like whatever you kind of put out as far as energy or whatever.

Not only does it manifest itself in the outside world, but just like you said, it's not anything different from the interview room when you're speaking and across from somebody.

Mark Anderson 11:02

Absolutely. And so when you see TV interviewing, right, and you see the, the guy yelling, the interviewer yelling at the interviewee and he wonders why he doesn't get anything.

I mean, think about it. Why would you get something with that law of reciprocity? You're getting back exactly what you gave.

Gresham Harkless 11:18

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. It's all fun and games when you're yelling, you can't handle the truth in front of TV cameras, but it's not so good if you're doing it in front of an interview.

Yeah, that makes sense. So now I wanted to ask you for what I call a CEO nugget, and this is a word of wisdom or piece of advice, or if you can hop into a time machine, what would you tell your younger business?

Mark Anderson 11:37

Don't hesitate to reach out for experts to undergird your weaker areas. We can't be the masters of all, despite the fact that I've worked around bosses and politicians that think they can.

That arrogance or ignorance, as the case may be, has caused many failures, unnecessary work, and much pain.

Find those confidants that you can grow together with, build partnerships, and remember my last answer with regard to the issue of integrity and credibility.

As you grow the relationship, consider with those individuals, are they meeting the same standard.

And the same beliefs that you have in that realm so that you don't run crosswise with that as you go down the road.

And when I say that, not coming from this position where I've got it all down, I didn't do that as early in building the business as I should have.

I thought, oh, I can master this. I can get on top of this. And the other thing is sometimes it costs money.

And if you're starting out, you don't have that financial capital to invest in it. So you take it on yourself and then you have a harder time divesting of it.

I wish I'd done that sooner, especially with the business aspects, because I find I spend so much time on the business aspect.

And I don't spend time on really what my my dream and my mission is, which is the development of the interviewing stuff.

Gresham Harkless 12:56

Now, I wanted to ask you my absolute favorite question, Mark, and this is the definition of what it means to be a CEO.

And we're hoping to have different quote unquote CEOs on the show. So I want to ask you, Mark, what is being a CEO?

Mark Anderson 13:07

I think it's about cooperation and collaboration, encouraging a dynamic to move your message forward while displaying character that is clear and enticing to your clients.

There's got to be that consistency in it. We have to demonstrate it consistently in dealing with co-workers and dealing with partners and dealing with clients.

I think that that has a certain appeal in today's environment that draw people to walk with you.

And so I think that's probably would be the most successful thing. That ability to do that, that ability to communicate with people that way is to me one of the most important things in that regard.

Gresham Harkless 13:45

Well, Mark, I truly appreciate your time. What I wanted to do is pass you the mic just to see if there's anything additional you can let our readers and our listeners know. And then, of course, how best they can get a hold of you.

Mark Anderson 13:54

Like to share something on that aggression I'm excited about the diversity of individuals and businesses you feature on this podcast.

Because after we start talking I started going through and saying you know that's probably why one of the questions to you what do you really think I'm a good fit.

Because  you look at that it's an eclectic mix which is really cool and so i i really appreciate that.

And I look back back on our development, and as we grew Anderson Investigative Associates, so much of our initial traction came from those entities and individuals we had encountered throughout my career.

Guess what? They were very much like me. In the interviewing realm, we often talk about this when we say people like to talk to people like themselves.

It's no wonder the closest group we surround ourselves with is often very homogeneous.

So as time has passed in our business, we've worked to expand our clientele outside of that realm.

It takes more work. It's easier just to grab off of the people that know who you are and everything else.

But we've expanded into dealing with the internal audit group, Uber, South State Bank, many other organizations that are outside that government realm and the realm that I dealt with for 30 years.

They've pushed our comfort level and ultimately improved the quality of the product we provide.

So I want to thank you, Gresham, as I suspect you have again expanded those horizons by exposing us to this large, diverse, or eclectic group of followers you have on the I AM CEO podcast.

It's undoubtedly a privilege for us to be here. And if anybody wants to get a hold of me or speak to me, you can check us out online.

The website is www.andersoninvestigative.com or email me at manderson@andersoninvestigative.com.

We're a small shop. If I'm out of town teaching or something like that, it might take me a day or two to get back to you, but I get back to everybody that reaches out to me.

Gresham Harkless 15:54

Yes, absolutely. And I appreciate you adding to the collectiveness. I don't know if that's a word, but I just tried to use it of these podcasts.

And definitely having somebody with your expertise and your insight has definitely been, definitely rewarding.

So I appreciate your time. We'll have all those links in the show notes so that anybody can follow up with you. But I hope you have a phenomenal rest of the day.

Mark Anderson 16:13

Thank you. You too. And I appreciate this opportunity. Thank you very much.

Outro 16:17

Thank you for listening to the I AM CEO Podcast powered by CBNation and Blue16 Media. Tune in next time and visit us at iamceo.co. I AM CEO is not just a phrase, it's a community.

Be sure to follow us on social media and subscribe to our podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and everywhere you listen to podcasts.

Subscribe and leave us a five-star rating. This has been the I AM CEO Podcast with Gresham Harkless Jr. Thank you for listening.

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