IAM921- CEO Enhances Remote Teams Collaboration

00:00 - 00:09

Daniel Pupius: I can apply to everything we do and it should really be a mantra. Because it's really easy for humans to fall into these habitual behaviors that we don't think about why we're doing things.

00:11 - 00:37

Intro: Are you ready to hear business stories and learn effective ways to build relationships, generate sales and level up your business from awesome CEOs, entrepreneurs, and founders without listening to a long, long, long interview. If so, you've come to the right place. Gresh values your time and is ready to share with you the valuable info you're in search of. This is the I Am CEO podcast.

00:38 - 00:47

Gresham Harkless: Hello, hello, hello. This is Gresh from the I Am CEO podcast and I have a very special guest on the show today. I have Dan Pukias of Range. Dan, it's awesome having you on show.

00:47 - 00:48

Daniel Pupius: Yeah, thanks for having me. Excited to

00:48 - 00:49

Intro: be here.

00:49 - 01:16

Gresham Harkless: Definitely excited to have you on. And before we jumped in, I want to read a little bit more about Dan so you can hear about all the awesome things that he's doing. And Dan is co-founder and CEO of Range. He was a staff software engineer at Google and went on to lead engineer at medium. He has an MA in industrial design from Sheffield University and a BSc in artificial intelligence from the University of Manchester. And in the past lives Dan race snowboards, jumped out of planes and lived in the jungle. Dan, can you speak to the

01:16 - 01:17

Gresham Harkless: IMCO community?

01:18 - 01:19

Daniel Pupius: Yeah, of course.

01:19 - 01:23

Gresham Harkless: Awesome, awesome, awesome. I was almost there with you. I did the jumping out of the plane, but I didn't live in the jungle or anything like that.

01:23 - 01:29

Daniel Pupius: So I am the skydiving is amazing. I did it for a few years and did a hundred jumps and a lot.

01:30 - 01:40

Gresham Harkless: Yeah, I did 1 and that was enough for me. So there you go. But so before all that, I wanted to hear a little bit more on how you guys started. Can you take us through your CEO story when they get started with all this awesome work you're doing?

01:40 - 02:10

Daniel Pupius: Yeah. So I came over to the States in 2005. I've been working in the UK and I got this really lucky opportunity to work at Google. It really stemmed from an online message forum I was part of in the early 2000s. So really lucky opportunity. And then I came over in 2005, worked in Gmail for a long time, Google+, a bunch of other Google products. Then I left Google in 2012 to join Medium, to join Ev and Biz. I've both found it as a Twitter. And they were looking at like different ways of running the company.

02:10 - 02:38

Daniel Pupius: They were looking at the company as a product, then produces products. And they were unhappy with management styles used to say Twitter and Google, because as companies get bigger, they get worse. So I got really interested in management theory and how we structure and operate teams. So as we were growing the company, we were using these new management practices. And what I found was I was lacking the tools necessary to use those practices and make them effective. And all those practices around distributing authority to the edges of the organization, creating autonomy and agency, ensuring you have

02:38 - 03:04

Daniel Pupius: communication practices that are inclusive and accessible for people. So we ended up building internal tools to support our operations. And I kind of realized, like why do this for 1 company when I could do it for thousands of company? And that was really the emphasis of Range. So I joined up with Jan, who is the people partner at Medium and a former colleague from Google, Braden. And we started Range and just got into it. It's been pretty exciting roller coaster ride since then.

03:04 - 03:22

Gresham Harkless: Yeah, absolutely, but it definitely sounds like something that's timely and especially with the disruption, I guess, in the way that people work and in the way people are communicating. I think a lot of times being able to, I guess, rewrite the script, so to speak, of how things are created and done are so essential and so necessary now, because that's where the opportunities come about.

03:23 - 03:49

Daniel Pupius: Yeah, totally. Yeah, the last year has been super wild, but we really see it as having accelerated trends versus creating new trends. So there was already a trend to remote work, to globalization, to more diverse and distributed teams. So these changes essentially are what make work more complex. Work is getting more complex is kind of a cliche now, but that's what it means for it to be more complex and we need different tools to run our organizations and that's the opportunity. So yeah, remote work and it's just 1 piece of the puzzle.

03:50 - 03:58

Gresham Harkless: Yeah, absolutely. So, I know we were touching on it a little bit. Could you take us through a little bit more on what you're doing at range, how you serve the clients that you work with and what exactly that looks like?

03:58 - 04:28

Daniel Pupius: Yeah. So today, engineering teams and product development teams use range to run asynchronous check-ins. And what this means is that you share what you're working on, what you've done, but then also like how you're doing. So we integrate with all your tools, so it's really easy, only takes about 5 minutes a day, and then we've actually developed features that encourage psychological safety. So it creates this culture of belonging and this foundation which then leads to effective teamwork. So for people who know them it's a little bit like a virtual stand-up but way better. So for managers

04:28 - 04:55

Daniel Pupius: and teammates it provides kind of a layer of situational awareness, this sort of ambient context that helps you know what's going on in your organization. So you know where to pay attention, where you need to get involved, what's happening. And then that transparency knowledge just makes it much easier to do your job. So that's essentially what we're doing today. And over time, we imagine integrating into all these different work processes to create this intersection of work and humanity that is so necessary.

04:56 - 05:08

Gresham Harkless: Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's something we often zoom past. I say so often, like we forget that human aspect of business and getting the opportunity to really, you know, leverage a way to synchronize and to connect all those things is absolutely huge.

05:08 - 05:26

Daniel Pupius: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And especially in today's time, it's just, you know, your cup is half full with, or maybe 90% full with all the stress in the world. Like you really need to focus on fundamentals and minimize the stress of work. So being intentional about how you work and how you operate, how information flows is super critical.

05:26 - 05:38

Gresham Harkless: Yeah, and it definitely sounds like it didn't correct me if I'm wrong. It solves that, you know, sometimes the issue with scalability that we kind of talked about in the beginning, where you start to get that bigger company, it starts to become more complex and messier. It has that opportunity to kind of help out with that as

05:38 - 06:06

Daniel Pupius: well. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that was a realization that for my time at Medium was that as companies get bigger, the default, you know, you have this startup and it feels really organic and agile and it's like super fun, then as it gets bigger, it gets chaotic and difficult. So the default reaction is to bring in order and structure, but then that order and structure is constraining. So how do you like control the chaos without having to destroy it and lose what made you special in the first place. And there always seems to be this shifting point

06:06 - 06:20

Daniel Pupius: where companies hit a scaling point where they lose all their original employees because it no longer feels like that fun, exciting place to work. And I do think that is as avoidable as just we need new mechanisms for structuring and organizing work.

06:21 - 06:45

Gresham Harkless: Yeah, so I absolutely believe I appreciate you all, you know, being able to do that. And I think that you want to be able to quote unquote control but without restricting like that creativity, especially the innovation that happens in those startup worlds. So to be able to have that balance beam is so huge. And I love that you all created the ability for organizations and businesses to be able to do that. So I wanted to ask you now for what I call your secret sauce. And it could be for yourself personally or your business or combo

06:45 - 06:47

Gresham Harkless: both, but what do you feel kind of sets you apart and makes you unique?

06:48 - 07:22

Daniel Pupius: Yeah, I think talking about range is interesting because in a world where so much business software is really sterile and inhuman, I think we're trying to rethink that. So we have a few defining principles. The first is as we talked is embracing the human side of work. So work isn't just about what you're doing, it's how you're doing it, it's about the relationships and as any good manager knows you have to focus on people as well as the projects. So range really reinforces that intersection. The second principle is integrating with existing work habits and tools. So

07:22 - 07:50

Daniel Pupius: we're not, there's never going to be 1 tool to rule them all and change management is really challenging. So how do we piggyback on existing habits that organizations already have in order to make change management easier. And the third is focusing on the team. And what I mean by that is, historically, when you talk about a team, it was essentially a group of people who report to a manager, and it was a command structure. When we talk about teams today, it's a network of people who are working towards a common purpose and team is now the

07:50 - 08:09

Daniel Pupius: fundamental unit of work. So when we think about the team what they need to be successful it's very different from what you what you thought about HR tools 20 years ago. So the team is the unit of work they have to be autonomous. They have to be have a clear sense of purpose the team has to be super tight knit and that is the key. So that's like the, what I would say are secret sources. So those 3 principles.

08:10 - 08:34

Gresham Harkless: Nice, absolutely appreciate that. And definitely correct me if I'm wrong, it kind of sounds like, you know, obviously with your experience and all the work that you all have been able to do, it's not something I think some of these times when you have innovations, it completely ignores, you know, what exists those human activities, human interactions, and that human resource aspect that you talked about, but to be able to kind of take that and recognize that, but at the same time create something that is like the sticky paper, it sounds like, and allows the ability for

08:34 - 08:39

Gresham Harkless: not it just to be connected, but it for also it to be able to also blossom and grow and expand.

08:40 - 09:08

Daniel Pupius: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. We, yeah, we've done a lot of research into, you know, group dynamics, psychology, organizational psychology, and, what it means, what, what people need to be effective and what they need to be a good team. And it's kind of crazy that that's unusual because, you know, if you're developing a tool, it's very easy to develop the tool to a process. So you basically automate a process, but you're not thinking about what is the purpose of the process or who are the humans involved in the process and what are their needs. And that's what we're

09:08 - 09:09

Daniel Pupius: doing differently.

09:09 - 09:21

Gresham Harkless: Yeah. And that's absolutely huge. Again, that human aspect is absolutely huge. And I think it's something that a lot of people have, or maybe even believe that it can't be done, but I love that you all have been able to create that and create that humanistic aspect.

09:22 - 09:53

Daniel Pupius: I think, yeah, people don't question that, say Twitter changes our news consumption or that Amazon changes our buying behavior. So, but people question that work software can change how we work together. So, Churchill said that we build the buildings thereafter they build us. So we build the software thereafter the software builds us. So so many processes are facilitated through software now that there's a huge opportunity to design that software in a way that actually encourages the behaviors that make us, you know, better colleagues, better at work. And that's the lens we're bringing to the table.

09:54 - 10:16

Gresham Harkless: Yeah, and that's absolutely huge. I love that quote because, you know, so many times, it's like, I don't want to say it's the chicken and the egg, but you don't really know, you know, what's influencing what. But I think that if you pay attention to those human activities, you don't ignore that. That's why I like that you connect with that. You did the research and homework because you're not ignoring what are those principles in order to create something. So many times people create stuff and ignore that. And then it doesn't actually work, but that's because you're

10:16 - 10:18

Gresham Harkless: not paying attention to that human aspect, the basis of it.

10:18 - 10:19

Daniel Pupius: Exactly. Yeah, totally.

10:20 - 10:30

Gresham Harkless: Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. So I wanted to switch gears a little bit and I wanted to ask you for what I call a CEO hack. And this might be an Apple book or habit that you have, but what's something that makes you more effective and efficient?

10:30 - 11:00

Daniel Pupius: Yeah, I think I've already telegraphed this and that kind of spoiler but it's a book and it's team of teams. I've recommended it to a lot of people and it's really changed how they think about the teams work together really shifted their mental model. So it is written by General McChrystal who ran the joint task force in Iraq. And we think of military as being like very command and control, but what he found was like moving to these team structures and having teams of teams and giving people autonomy and distributed decision making was super critical in

11:00 - 11:10

Daniel Pupius: order to be agile and fast. So of course we're not fighting wars, but the principles apply to the workplace. And it's a really good way of shifting up how we think about organizational structures and how we should organize people at scale.

11:11 - 11:20

Gresham Harkless: I wanted to ask you now for what I call a CEO nugget. So this could be a word of wisdom or piece of advice, it might be something you would tell a client or if you happen to a time machine, you might tell your younger business self.

11:21 - 11:49

Daniel Pupius: So it's focus on needs. And that is, I can apply to everything we do and it should really be a mantra. Because it's really easy for humans to fall into these habitual behaviors that we don't think about why we're doing things. So in the context of product development, you have to really understand your customer needs. Like why do they need this? What need are we satisfying? Then that helps you figure out what to build. So instead of like, I'm going to build this feature, it's like, why are we building the feature and what need does it

11:49 - 12:18

Daniel Pupius: satisfy? When you think about team processes, it's really easy to copy practices from other companies like Google, Netflix, all these people, or like GitLab, but without thinking about what need that process serves. And then when you bring it into your organization, it falls flat or causes tension. So again, needs are important. They're like, why, what is the need that this performance management process is serving? Why, what need is the Monday meeting fulfilling? And if you focus on needs, then you can actually evolve all these practices much more effectively. Another example I like is giving critical feedback.

12:20 - 12:40

Daniel Pupius: What does the person need in order to correct the behavior? Often when people give critical feedback, it's really to serve their own needs, which is to get something off their chest. But sometimes that's not what's gonna help the person change. So really putting your mind and putting yourself in their shoes and what they need to change. So it permeates everything from product development to strategy to work processes to giving feedback. So just focus on needs.

12:41 - 12:49

Gresham Harkless: I wanted to ask you now my absolute favorite question, which is the definition of what it means to be a CEO. We're hoping to have different quote unquote CEOs on the show. So Dan, what does being

12:49 - 13:18

Daniel Pupius: a CEO mean to you? Yeah, I think I'll caveat it with I'm a startup CEO, not a CEO of a 14, 500 company or a multinational business. So to me, it means to see a change that you wanna occur in the world and then to bring a team together to realize that vision. So the main person I job is to help to find that North Star but then create an environment where everyone can be, where they can do their best work, where they can grow and be fulfilled. So that's what it means to be a CEO.

13:19 - 13:47

Daniel Pupius: On the more practical side, it means that the buck stops with me. So I have to figure out how to be resilient and how to roll with the punches and then help the team navigate the roller coaster. And it's really difficult. 1 of the hardest things in the early stage company is balancing performance and well-being because if you let well-being degrade the performance will degrade but at the same time we need people to be executing and effective because we have such limited resources. So yeah so I think that's what it really means to me. And the

13:47 - 14:08

Daniel Pupius: way that manifests a range is that we really think that work can be better. It can be more inclusive, more engaging, more rewarding. We spent so many hours at work that if we can make work better, then it has a huge impact on the world. So we have this kind of tagline, work shouldn't feel so much like work. And that's what we're doing. Yeah.

14:09 - 14:30

Gresham Harkless: I absolutely love and appreciate that. And I think so many times I think I read, you know, when I was younger that, you know, how much time you spend at work and to really like dislike, you know, what you do is 1 of the, you know, 1 of the worst things that could happen. And I think it's a bad thing, not just for yourself at work and the people and the products that you're potentially working on, but it's also something that affects you as a human being. So I love that you saw that vision of how

14:30 - 14:40

Gresham Harkless: can we make this better and you created something in order to make that happen. You have that tagline, the mantra and the belief in your organization is so huge and something we can definitely remind ourselves of.

14:40 - 15:05

Daniel Pupius: Yeah, totally. I think, yeah, it's definitely, at the moment, it's a privilege to be able to work on things that you enjoy and for work to not feel like work. But so I think it's incumbent on all business owners to make work feel better for people and to make their environment more rewarding so people can feel like they're actually growing. And then I think that the net result of that is that they will be more effective, they'll have better business outcomes because people are more invested in the vision and, you know, the more, more end up

15:05 - 15:06

Daniel Pupius: being more effective as a result.

15:06 - 15:28

Gresham Harkless: Yeah, absolutely. And then they perform better. A lot of times when people are doing and enjoy what they're doing and what they're working on in the environment, they start to perform better. And that gets those quote unquote net results that we're all looking for as well. So Dan, truly appreciate that definition. I appreciate your time even more. What I wanted to do was pass you the mic, so to speak, just to see if there's anything additional you can let our readers and listeners know. And of course, how best they can get ahold of you and find

15:28 - 15:29

Gresham Harkless: out about all the awesome things that you're working

15:29 - 15:57

Daniel Pupius: on. Yeah, of course. It'd be great to plug range. So if you're interested in exploring a sequence check-ins, we're happy to offer 3 months to your listeners. So they can just use IAMCEO when going through the upgrade process. You can try premium for free. And then if you want to connect, LinkedIn is great. You can just find me there. Pupius, P-U-P-I-U-S. Just make sure to add a description of why you want to chat because I get so many demand gen people and recruiters reaching out that it's hard to filter through.

15:57 - 16:11

Gresham Harkless: Yeah, absolutely. Lead with intention. That's the most important thing. So we will have the links and information in the show notes as well too, so that everybody can get a hold of you. I'm gonna get a copy of all the awesome things that you guys are working on, but definitely appreciate that again, Dan, and I hope you have a phenomenal rest of the day.

16:11 - 16:40

Intro: Thank you for listening to the I Am CEO podcast powered by CB Nation and Blue 16 Media. Tune in next time and visit us at imceo.co. I am CEO is not just a phrase, it's a community. Don't forget to schedule your complimentary digital marketing consultation at blue16media.com. This has been the I am CEO Podcast with Gresham Harkness Jr. Thank you for listening.