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IAM002 – How This CEO & Media Consultant Helps Contribute to the Media by Pushing an Effective Health & Wellness Agenda

Podcast Interview with with Dr. Alexis Moreno of Wit & Reason

Dr. Alexis Moreno is a consulting psychologist and founder of Wit & Reason. Passionate about the interplay between media, culture, and human behavior, she has decided to dedicate her consulting services to enhance media corporations and the creative workforce.

  • CEO Hacks: The League of Women Instagram: @theleaguewomen,  Startup Creative Instagram: @startupcreative, Freakonomics Podcast – The Secret Life of CEOs: http://freakonomics.com/ceos/
  • CEO Nugget: Highly respect everyone in the organization
  • CEO Defined: The foundation of the company and completely invested in the company

Instagram @witandreason
Instagram @dr.a.moreno
Twitter @witandreason
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dralexismoreno/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/witandreason/

Full Interview on CBNation TV

Bonus – I AM CEO Outtakes

Dr. Alexis was a great sport when our host Gresham struggled reading the intro to the podcast.

Transcription:

The full transcription is only available to CBNation Library Members. Sign up today!

Gresham Harkless 0:02

Do you want to learn effective ways to build relationships, generate sales and grow your business from successful entrepreneurs, startups, and CEOs without listening to a long, long, long interview? If so, you've come to the right place, Gresham Harkless values your time and is ready to share with you precisely the information you're in search of. This is I am CEO podcast.

Gresham Harkless 0:30

Hello, hello, hello, this is Gresh from the I AM CEO podcast and I have a very special guest on the show today. I have Alexis Moreno from Wit & Reason. Alexis is awesome to have you on the show.

Dr. Alexis Moreno 0:43

Thank you.

Gresham Harkless 0:44

No problem, no problem. And Dr. Alexis Moreno is a consulting psychologist and founder of Wit & Reason. She's passionate about the interplay between media culture in human behavior. And she has decided to dedicate her consulting services to enhancing media corporations and the creative workforce. So Alexis, are you ready to talk to the I AM CEO community?

Dr. Alexis Moreno 1:08

Definitely.

Gresham Harkless 1:09

Awesome, awesome, awesome. Well, what I wanted to do was just ask you the first question, which is just to kind of introduce yourself to us, tell us your CEO story, your background, and what led you to kind of start your business?

 [restrict paid=”true”]

Dr. Alexis Moreno 1:19

Hey, well, as you mentioned, I'm a psychologist. And as a psychologist, we see thoughts, emotions, and cognitive functioning, present in everyday life. To us, psychology is invaluable to functioning, working through life's challenges, and celebrating life's successes. And it still surprises me how little attention psychology has given to every aspect of our daily life. So, I started my business as a media consulting psychologist, because our media continues to struggle. My ideas of media and media psychology go back to me as a kid, some of my earliest memories are of watching cartoons with my little sister that were insanely violent. And I remember wondering, why in the hell are the adults letting her watch this stuff.

And since then, I just I been acutely aware of the messaging, how it impacts our individual perceptions of the world, and how it shapes our society. It distorts our perception sometimes and informs and enlightens us other times. And I just knew at a very young age that I wanted to help and contribute to the media in whatever way that I could. I'm a terrible actor. I am way too opinionated to be a journalist, but consulting and pushing an effective health and wellness agenda, both internally and through the media is my niche. And a specialized media consulting psychology practice didn't exist, so I created it.

Gresham Harkless 2:53

Awesome, awesome, awesome. Well, no, it's very frustrating perceptive of you to be able to see that, especially at a young age, and be able to not only see that but understand that you wanted to do something to solve that. So definitely, kudos to you for that. So could you tell us a little bit more about the services that you provide for Wit & Reason?

Dr. Alexis Moreno 3:13

Definitely. I mean, all the details for our services are available online at www.witandreason.com. We offer training and seminars that are customized, we do workplace functional assessments to see how the workplace is functioning and how the dynamics within the workplace are doing. And those assessments form what type of interventions we implement within the company. So if it is some kind of training or seminar, then it's customized specifically to the company's needs. We also do development and review of whatever kind of programs they have going on or even communication materials, and we offer subject matter experts on anything human-related because psychology isn't everything that we do. And as far as the media is concerned, we work with organizations to help them create and promote characters that model positive functioning and psychology. And if they're looking for a little bit more drama, then we could help them create storylines that promote what kind of everyday challenges that people experience that are relatable and how a character can then build resiliency for something like that.

Gresham Harkless 4:30

That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah, I mean, I can't I think we've learned definitely over the last couple of years, just how important or how big the media plays in our everyday lives. Sometimes we don't even know how much they play. So again, you know, that's, that's super awesome that you're able to kind of see that but again, like any entrepreneur, any CEO does create something to actually help out with that. So what I wanted to ask is, you know, what kind of do you feel are the things or maybe one thing that kind of makes sure business and organization unique?

 [restrict paid=”true”]

Dr. Alexis Moreno 5:02

We are experts in the psychology of groups, leadership, cognitive functioning, emotions, and human behavior. And we're super humble about it. Our company culture is incredibly important to what makes our organization unique. We're both left and right brain analytical and creative, which is an exceptionally rare blend of characteristics to find in a workforce. And when reasons got it, our team was fun, quirky, brilliant, passionate, compassionate, and articulate. Not only do we have the knowledge and the insight into what will make other organizations holistically successful, but we are also each sincerely invested in our client's success.

Our philosophy outlet and reason is that each person in an organization is an expert in their own experience. And each person can provide useful information and critiques about how an organization is functioning. So the challenge is that people within the organization, however, may not be as forthcoming about their knowledge, because they may fear repercussions or it's just extra work upon what they already have going on in the company. So that is it for us as an outside consulting company is that we get to come into an organization and just really actively listen to everyone involved in a company, learn from the individuals within the organization, and dissect what's going well and what needs work, how can things be resolved, and who's the best person to lead the change? We don't, go into companies as some consultants do. And just expect, like we know everything, every little function, detail about a company, and then implement all these changes without asking anybody. We definitely do assessments first, and it'll be the people who would do that change that would be affecting us.

Additionally, other consulting services are based on a limited scope of psychology, our experiences are different than other consulting firms, we not only understand how a person is functioning in the work environment, but who each employee is as a person, what might be going on at home, in their community, or on the news that could very well be impacting how they're functioning at work. So we don't just implement it like a standard package. We take extra evidence-based efforts to make our interventions, sound and effective within the organization. We incorporate different levels of learning and engagement into everything we do. And we tailor our interventions specifically to people involved in the company and for that company culture as a whole.

See also  IAM243- Speaker and School Psychologist Serves the Youth to Motivate Them

Gresham Harkless 7:44

Awesome, awesome, awesome. Yeah, you guys do, obviously a huge amount of stuff to kind of help out people. But I love the fact that you you know, you mentioned on the show that you don't actually do something that is kind of like a paintbrush effect, so to speak, you actually have an individual where you look and see exactly like what the issue or how you can help solve the whatever might be a pain point for the organization, and you figure out how to do that. So it's not that you come there with an agenda already. So one of the big questions that we always try to ask here on I AM CEO podcasts, is just kind of like an SEO hack, which might be like a resource or a book or something, or maybe even an app that you feel helps you out as an entrepreneur or business owner, could you kind of pinpoint maybe one of those things that kind of help you out?

Dr. Alexis Moreno 8:30

Just one because I have a couple.

Gresham Harkless 8:31

Let's list a few of them.

Dr. Alexis Moreno 8:32

Okay. So I'm frequently on Instagram. So while I'm on there, it's really nice to get CEO motivation, or especially entrepreneur motivation. And as a woman's own company, a League of Extraordinary Women is really helpful. They have great branding, and they just send out a bunch of like positive messages about doing the job and staying committed and just realizing like, it's not going to be smooth sailing all the way through. So it's a very realistic, yet optimistic kind of Instagram feed. Another one on Instagram is startup creative. And the reminders are really cute. The latest one was Beyonce was important in a day as well, and like stop saying yes to shit you hate. So also the very helpful staff. They also have a magazine mentoring program and a podcast too. It's a company from Australia. Okay, and then the last one, which I highly recommend is Freakonomics Radio. Have you heard it? I've heard of the book I have. Okay, so they have a podcast, The Secret Life of CEOs.

Gresham Harkless 9:45

Ah, okay.

Dr. Alexis Moreno 9:46

Okay, so they interview a bunch of really famous CEOs and they really get to talk about like the process and some of the challenges from a wide range of perspectives, a wide range of CEO. So it's also helpful to kind of learn from other people.

Gresham Harkless 10:04

Yeah, definitely, definitely. And that's going to segue to my next question, which I love the fact that you're able to kind of say, whether it be motivation or insight from very successful entrepreneurs and business owners. So what would you give us as a CEO nugget, I call it, which is maybe a word of wisdom that you would give to any entrepreneur or a business owner.

Dr. Alexis Moreno 10:22

As a psychologist, I have tons of nuggets, just limited to one that I think is just so truly crucial,

Gresham Harkless 10:30

It is the best of the best.

Dr. Alexis Moreno 10:32

Yeah, I think this one just kind of like encompasses everything. Just highly respect everyone in your organization, because it's the humane and healthy way to coexist, and it would just be far more difficult to do anything without them.

Gresham Harkless 10:49

I love it, I love it. It's kind of like an extension of the golden rule, so to speak, treat others how you want to be treated,

Dr. Alexis Moreno 10:54

Right? Or how they want to be treated,

Gresham Harkless 10:56

How do they want to be treated? Exactly, exactly. You said it better. Now, what is you know, because we have a range of different entrepreneurs, and business owners and CEOs, whether someone that might start a nonprofit organization, or someone that might be a CEO of a Fortune 500 company, or someone that's starting an organization may be in their parent's garage, we have different types of CEOs, and we're looking to kind of definitely redefine that. So how would you define being CEO? What does that mean to you?

Dr. Alexis Moreno 11:20

Yeah, when you first asked me, if I'd be interested to join this podcast, I haven't really seen myself as the CEO quite yet. Because I think like a lot of people, I have that stereotype in my head that, you know, it's just some older white male running like a huge corporation and has to like respond to the board of directors and like, has to like, deal with like, billion-dollar negotiations or something like that. So I appreciate that you're, you're reaching out to CEOs at every level. And so for me, when I started thinking about it more, as a CEO, I was just really reflecting on my experience. And as a CEO, we set the foundation, we actually kind of become the foundation of our company, especially as an entrepreneur who built it from nothing.

The company's successes and challenges are truly on our shoulders, we are constantly actively creating and maintaining a functioning system all at the same time. So, therefore, I believe or value that it's important for us and CEO to know how every aspect of the company functions. So every area that needs improvement, and why all of its strengths, just the entire ins, and outs of the company is important for the press CEO to understand. And the only way to do this is to be completely invested. So not detached and just focused on the big picture, but knowledgeable and curious, mindful of our employees well being and functioning, the operational practices of the corporation, the management practices, and the big picture. And it's not a job for everyone, not everyone cares about or notices the beautiful intricacies of a functioning organization. For those who do., it's that fascination and respect for the system that makes them crazy enough to do the job to take on the endless late nights, and all of the stress ever. Because at the end of the day, being a CEO means deeply understanding that you're not just making decisions for a company, you're making decisions for the people who work alongside you. And for the people who trust and rely on your services.

Gresham Harkless 13:32

Awesome, awesome, awesome. Yeah, I love that definition. Definitely encompasses everything that you know, all your decisions make, and everything that you do. So, Dr. Alexis, I'm super grateful that you were able to take some time out of your schedule to kind of speak with us and tell us a little bit about your, your business and your background. What I wanted to do was just kind of give you the floor to see if there's anything additional you want to let us know. And then also kind of let us know how best to get a hold of you.

Dr. Alexis Moreno 13:55

Yeah, so at Wit & Reason obviously, we are very passionate about the business world and wellness and health and how people are functioning and how they're doing. And we offer both wellness and executive coaching. So people are out there looking to figure out ways to find more balance in their life or incorporate more ways that they can take care of themselves. So that way they can help care for others. That's definitely something that we'd like to connect with people on as well. And we have multiple pieces of training not just in corporations, but also out in the community to like to do a lot of community outreach to make psychological information and practices accessible to everybody. So we have a few events coming up. So they could go ahead and check out our website to stay posted on everything that's going on.

Gresham Harkless 14:44

Sounds good. And we'll make sure to have a link to your website in the show notes just in case anybody wants to check it out. But again, Dr. Alexis, I'm truly appreciative of you taking your time out. And thank you so much.

Dr. Alexis Moreno 14:57

Thank you

Outro 15:00

Thank you for listening to the I AM CEO o podcast powered by Blue 16 Media. Tune in next time and visit us at iamceo.co I am CEO is not just a phrase, it's a community. Be sure to follow us on social media and subscribe to our podcast on iTunes Google Play and everywhere you listen to podcasts, SUBSCRIBE, and leave us a five-star rating grab CEO gear at www.ceogear.co. This has been the I AM CEO podcast with Gresham Harkless Thank you for listening

Gresham Harkless 0:02

See also  IAM1522 - Holistic Psychologist Helps Clients With Holistic Mental Wellness at Different Levels

Do you want to learn effective ways to build relationships, generate sales and grow your business from successful entrepreneurs, startups and CEOs without listening to a long, long, long interview? If so, you've come to the right place, Gresham Harkless values your time and is ready to share with you precisely the information you're in search of. This is I am CEO podcast.

Gresham Harkless 0:30

Hello, hello, hello, this is Gresh from the I AM CEO podcast and I have a very special guest on the show today. I have Alexis Moreno from Wit & Reason. Alexis is awesome to have you on the show.

Dr. Alexis Moreno 0:43

Thank you.

Gresham Harkless 0:44

No problem, no problem. And Dr. Alexis Moreno is a consulting psychologist and founder of Wit & Reason. She's passionate about the interplay between media culture in human behavior. And she has decided to dedicate her consulting services to enhance media corporations and the creative workforce. So Alexis, are you ready to talk to the I AM CEO community?

Dr. Alexis Moreno 1:08

Definitely.

Gresham Harkless 1:09

Awesome, awesome, awesome. Well, what I wanted to do was just asking you the for the first question is just to kind of introduce yourself to us, tell us your CEO story, your background, and what led you to kind of start your business?

Dr. Alexis Moreno 1:19

Hey, well, as you mentioned, I'm a psychologist. And as a psychologist, we see thoughts, emotions, cognitive functioning, present in everyday life. To us, psychology is invaluable to functioning, working through life's challenges and celebrating life's successes. And it still surprises me how little attention psychology has given to every aspect of our daily life. So, I started my business as a media consulting psychologist, because our media continues to struggle. My ideas of media and media psychology goes back to me as a kid, some of my earliest memories are watching cartoons with my little sister that were insanely violent. And I remember wondering, why in the hell are the adults letting her watch this stuff. And since then, I just I been acutely aware of the messaging, how it impacts our individual perceptions of the world, and how it shapes our society. It distorts our perception sometimes and informs and enlightens us other times. And I just knew at a very young age that I wanted to help and contribute to the media in whatever way that I could. I'm a terrible actor. I am way too opinionated to be a journalist, but consulting and pushing an effective health and wellness agenda, both internally and through the media is my niche. And a specialized media consulting psychology practice didn't exist, so I created it.

Gresham Harkless 2:53

Awesome, awesome, awesome. Well, no, it's very frustrating perceptive of you to be able to see that, especially at a young age and be able to not only see that, but understand that you wanted to do something to solve that. So definitely, kudos to you for that. So could you tell us a little bit more about your services that you provide for Wit & Reason?

Dr. Alexis Moreno 3:13

Definitely. I mean, all the details for our services are available online at www.witandreason.com. We offer training and seminars that are customized, we do workplace functional assessments to see how the workplace is functioning and how the dynamics within the workplace are doing. And those assessments and form what what type of interventions we implement within the company. So if it is some kind of training or seminar, then it's customized specifically to the company's needs. We also do development and review of whatever kind of programs they have going on, or even like communication materials, and we offer subject matter experts on anything human related, because psychology isn't everything that we do. And as far as the media is concerned, we work with organizations to help them create and promote characters that model positive functioning and psychology. And if they're looking for a little bit more drama, then we could help them create storylines that promote what kind of everyday challenges that people experience that are relatable and how a character can then build resiliency for something like that.

Gresham Harkless 4:30

That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah, I mean, I can't I think we've learned definitely over the last couple of years, just how important or how big the media plays in our everyday lives. Sometimes we don't even know how much they play. So again, you know, that's, that's super awesome that you're able to kind of see that but again, like any entrepreneur, any CEO does create something to actually help out with that. So what I wanted to ask is, you know, what kind of do you feel are the things or maybe one thing that kind of makes sure business and organization unique.

Dr. Alexis Moreno 5:02

Well, we are experts in psychology of groups, leadership, cognitive functioning, emotions and human behavior. And we're super humble about it. Our company culture is incredibly important to what makes our organization unique. We're both left and right brain analytical and creative, which is an exceptionally rare blend of characteristics to find in a workforce. And when reasons got it, our team were fun, quirky, brilliant, passionate, compassionate and articulate. Not only do we have the knowledge and the insight into what will make other organizations holistically successful, we are each sincerely invested in our clients success. Our philosophy outlet and reason is that each person in an organization is an expert in their own experience. And each person can provide useful information and critiques about how an organization is functioning. So the challenges is that people within the organization, however, may not be as forthcoming about their knowledge, because they may fear repercussions or it's just extra work upon what they already have going on in the company. So that is it for us as an outside consulting company is that we get to come into an organization and just really actively listen to everyone involved in a company, learn from the individuals within the organization, and dissect what's going well what needs work, how can things be resolved, and who's the best person to lead the change? We don't, go into companies as some consultants do. And just expect, like we know everything, every little function, detail about a company and then implement all these changes without asking anybody. We definitely do assessments first, and it'll be the people who would do that change would be affecting. Additionally, other consulting services are based on a limited scope of psychology, our experiences are different than other consulting firms, we not only understand how a person is functioning in the work environment, but who each employee is as a person, what might be going on at home, in their community, or on the news that could very well be impacting how they're functioning at work. So we don't just implement like a standard package. We take extra evidence based efforts to make our interventions, sound and effective within organization. We incorporate different levels of learning and engagement into everything we do. And we tailor our interventions specific to people involved in the company and for that company culture as a whole.

Gresham Harkless 7:44

Awesome, awesome, awesome. Yeah, you guys do, obviously a huge amount of stuff to kind of help out people. But I love the fact that you you know, you mentioned on the show that you don't actually do something that is kind of like a paintbrush effects, so to speak, you actually have an individual where you look and see exactly like what the issue or how you can help solve the whatever might be a pain point for the organization, and you figure out how to do that. So it's not that you come there with a agenda already. So one of the big questions that we always try to ask here on I AM CEO podcasts, is just kind of like a SEO hack, which might be like a resource or a book or something, or maybe even an app that you feel helps you out as an entrepreneur or business owner, could you kind of pinpoint maybe one of those things that kind of help you out?

See also  IAM237- Founder Empowers Business Creatives Who Seek to Impact Humanity and Mankind

Dr. Alexis Moreno 8:30

Just one because I have a couple.

Gresham Harkless 8:31

Let's list a few of them.

Dr. Alexis Moreno 8:32

Okay. So I'm frequently on Instagram. So while I'm on there, it's really nice to get like CEO motivation, or especially like entrepreneur motivation. And as a woman own company, a League of Extraordinary women is really helpful. They have great branding, and they just send out a bunch of like positive messages about doing the job and staying committed and just realizing like, it's not going to be smooth sailing all the way through. So it's a very realistic, yet optimistic kind of Instagram feed. Another one on Instagram is startup creative. And the reminders are really cute. The latest one was Beyonce was important in a day as well, and like stop saying yes to shit you hate. So also very helpful stuff. They also have a magazine mentoring program and a podcast too. It's a company from Australia. Okay, and then the last one last one, which I highly recommend is Freakonomics Radio. Have you heard it? I've heard of the book I have. Okay, so they have a podcast, The Secret Life of CEOs.

Gresham Harkless 9:45

Ah, okay.

Dr. Alexis Moreno 9:46

Okay, so they interview a bunch of really famous CEOs and they really get to talk about like the process and some of the challenges from a wide range of perspectives, wide range of CEO's. So it's also helpful to kind of learn from other people.

Gresham Harkless 10:04

Yeah, definitely, definitely. And that's going to segue to my next question which, which I love the fact that you're able to kind of say, whether it be motivation, or insight from very successful entrepreneurs and business owners. So what would you give us as a CEO nugget, I call it, which is maybe a word of wisdom that you would give to any entrepreneur, business owner.

Dr. Alexis Moreno 10:22

As a psychologist, I have tons of nuggets, just just limited to one that I think is just so truly crucial,

Gresham Harkless 10:30

it is the best of the best.

Dr. Alexis Moreno 10:32

Yeah, I think this one just kind of like encompasses everything. Just highly respect everyone in your organization, because it's the humane and healthy way to coexist, and it would just be far more difficult to do anything without them.

Gresham Harkless 10:49

I love it, I love it. It's kind of like an extension of the golden rule, so to speak, treat others how you want to be treated,

Dr. Alexis Moreno 10:54

Right? Or how they want to be treated,

Gresham Harkless 10:56

How they want to be treated? Exactly, exactly. You said it better. Now, what is you know, because we have a range of different entrepreneurs, and business owners and CEOs, whether someone that might start a nonprofit organization, or someone that might be a CEO of a Fortune 500 company, or someone that's starting an organization may be in their parent's garage, we have different types of CEOs, and we're looking to kind of definitely redefine that. So how would you define being CEO? What does that mean to you?

Dr. Alexis Moreno 11:20

Yeah, when you first asked me to, if I'd be interested to join this podcast, I haven't really seen myself as the CEO quite yet. Because I think like a lot of people, I have that stereotype in my head that, you know, it's just some older white male running like a huge corporation and has to like respond to the board of directors and like, has to like, deal with like, billion dollar negotiations or something like that. So I appreciate that you're, you're reaching out to CEOs at every level. And so for me, when I started thinking about it more, as a CEO, I was just really reflecting on my experience. And as a CEO, we set the foundation, we actually kind of become the foundation of our company, especially as an entrepreneur who built it from nothing. The company's successes and challenges are truly on our shoulders, we are constantly actively creating and maintaining a functioning system all at the same time. So therefore, I believe or value that it's important for us and CEO to know how to how every aspect of the company functions. So every area that needs improvement, and why all of its strengths, just the entire ins and outs of the company is important presses CEO to understand. And the only way to do this is to be completely invested. So not detached and just focused on the big picture, but knowledgeable and curious and mindful of our employees well being and functioning, the operational practices of the corporation, the management practices, and the big picture. And it's not a job for everyone, not everyone cares about or notices the beautiful intricacies of a functioning organization. For those who do., it's that fascination and respect for the system that makes them crazy enough to do the job to take on the endless late nights, and all of the stress ever. Because at the end of the day, being a CEO means deeply understanding that you're not just making decisions for a company, you're making decisions for the people who work alongside you. And for the people who trust and rely on your services.

Gresham Harkless 13:32

Awesome, awesome, wesome. Yeah, I love that definition. Definitely encompasses everything that you know, all your decisions make and everything that you do. So, Dr. Alexis, I'm super grateful that you were able to take some time out of your schedule to kind of speak with us, tell us a little bit about your, your business and your background. What I wanted to do was just kind of give you the floor to see if there's anything additional you want to let us know. And then also kind of let us know how best to get a hold of you.

Dr. Alexis Moreno 13:55

Yeah, so at Wit & Reason obviously, we are very passionate about the business world and wellness and health and how people are functioning and how they're doing. And we offer both wellness and executive coaching. So people are out there looking to figure out ways to find more balance in their life or incorporate more ways that they can take care of themselves. So that way they can help care of others. That's definitely something that that we'd like to connect with people on as well. And we have multiple trainings like not just in corporations, but also out in the community to like to do a lot of community outreach to make psychological information and practices accessible to everybody. So we have a few events coming up. So they could go ahead and check out our website to stay posted on everything that's going on.

Gresham Harkless 14:44

Sounds good. And we'll make sure to have a link to your website in the show notes just in case anybody wants to check it out. But again, Dr. Alexis, I'm truly appreciative of you taking your time out. And thank you so much.

Dr. Alexis Moreno 14:57

Thank you

Outro 15:00

Thank you for listening to the I AM CEO o podcast powered by Blue 16 Media. Tune in next time and visit us at iamceo.co I am CEO is not just a phrase, it's a community. Be sure to follow us on social media and subscribe to our podcast on iTunes Google Play and everywhere you listen to podcasts, SUBSCRIBE And leave us a five star rating grab CEO gear at www.ceogear.co. This has been the I AM CEO podcast with Gresham Harkless Thank you for listening

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

[/restrict] 

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