IAM2493 – Best-selling Author Helps Executives Make Major Changes in Their Organisation

Speaker 1

00:00 - 00:16

So how do you affect change and grow an organization and architect something beyond you? And how do you scale? Most CEOs, if they enter at the smaller stage, don't know how to bring maturity back and sort of arc a story of growth. Many of them have never led.

Speaker 1

00:16 - 00:30

It's astounding how many CEOs go from leading a team of eight people to suddenly leading hundreds of people because they had a too fast rise. And so they get altitude sickness, right? They just get up there and they get too high. So we accompany CEOs on that journey.

Speaker 1

00:32 - 00:59

Are you ready to hear business stories and learn effective ways to build relationships, generate sales, and level up your business from awesome CEOs, entrepreneurs, and founders without listening to a long, long, long interview? If so, you've come to the right place. Gresh values your time and is ready to share with you the valuable info you're in search of. This is the I Am CEO Podcast.

Speaker 1

00:59 - 01:07

Hello, hello, hello. This is Gresh from the I Am CEO podcast and I have a very special guest on the show today. I have Ron Carucci of Navalent. Ron, it's awesome to have you on the show.

Speaker 1

01:07 - 01:15

Gresh, great to be with you. Thanks for having me. No problem. Super excited to have you on and what I wanted to do was just read a little bit more about Ron so you can hear about all the awesome things that he's doing.

Speaker 1

01:16 - 01:43

And Ron is the co-founder and managing partner of Navalent. Ron is the best-selling author of eight books and popular contributor to Harvard Business Review and Forbes. He's a two-time TEDx speaker. Ron led a 10-year longitudinal study on executive transition to find out why more than 50 percent of leaders fail within the first 18 months of appointment and uncovering the four differentiating capabilities that sets successful leaders apart.

Speaker 1

01:43 - 01:56

Those findings are highlighted in his groundbreaking Amazon number one book, Rise to Power, co-author with Eric Hansen. Ron, are you ready to speak to the I'm CEO community? Gresham, let's go. Let's do it.

Speaker 1

01:56 - 02:21

So the first question I had was to hear a little bit more about what I call your CEO story and what led you to start your business. So, uh, I'm, I'm like many, the accidental entrepreneur. I don't know that any, I set out to start a firm by two, uh, two friends and I were working at a very large consulting firm in New York city and, uh, love this work, love the work of leadership and change. But when we got acquired by a larger company, it wasn't really fun anymore.

Speaker 1

02:22 - 02:32

It was more like about feeding a dinosaur. And so we thought we can still love this work, but we can do our own thing. So we left to go do our own thing. But that, of course, that quickly meant, wow, we're going to need help.

Speaker 1

02:32 - 02:54

So it meant having to hire people. And the challenge there, of course, is now you're running a firm. So I think for the 15 years Navalin's been around, I think, you know, it's been a wrestling match of leading the work and doing the work are two different things, and you have to love both. Um, you know, I, I know a lot about being a CEO by the ones I coach and work with and help.

Speaker 1

02:54 - 03:08

Um, and it's not a job for the faint of heart. Um, I don't know that I would ever call myself a CEO on it because just it's a dreaded job. I'm glad I have partners that run the firm with me. Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

Speaker 1

03:08 - 03:25

And it's always great to have, you know, like a great team around you to make sure that, you know, you're able to be successful. You're able to hit your goals and do all those things, but it's kind of great that you're also working with. you know, a lot of CEOs and you're able to have that perspective and provide insight to help them out and be part of their team as well. It's, um, it's, you know, it's not a job for the faint of heart.

Speaker 1

03:25 - 03:45

Many people don't know what they're thinking about or what they're asking for when they say, I want to be a CEO one day. And many people want it for the wrong reasons. Uh, and the ones that get it, you know, there's no, I've never met a CEO who has told me, uh, this is exactly what I thought the job was going to be. or gosh, this job is really fun.

Speaker 1

03:46 - 04:20

Most CEOs are surprised by how lonely the job is, surprised by how little power they actually have to affect change, by how unforgiving the job is and by how concocted they are by others and how misunderstood they are. People just assume they get the trappings of wealth and success and notoriety and see all these perks that come with the role and think that's unfair and unjust and think they don't work hard and they just go to go and play golf all day. I suppose there are CEOs that do that. But for the most part, most CEOs work super hard.

Speaker 1

04:20 - 04:36

24 seven, it's a job that you don't get a break in. And when you make mistakes, everything's your fault. And when things go well, you're not getting given any credit for it. It's a very sacrificial job and a very ruthlessly unforgiving job.

Speaker 1

04:36 - 04:55

If I tell CEOs who are aspiring CEOs, you better want to suffer. If you don't want to suffer, There are great things that come with being a CEO too, for sure. But if you don't want to suffer in your job or sacrifice for your job, you shouldn't be a CEO. Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

Speaker 1

04:55 - 05:20

It kind of reminds me of, there's a quote by, who started Tesla, I completely forgot his name, I blanked on his name, but he basically said that starting a business or starting a firm is like, chewing on broken glass and staring into the abyss. So a lot of times it can be very difficult to make that happen. So I'm glad you definitely shine light on what that looks like. And I know you touched a little bit upon some of the things you guys are doing to kind of help support CEOs.

Speaker 1

05:20 - 05:37

Could you tell us a little bit more about your services, what you guys are providing, and kind of what makes you- Yeah. So I think, I mean, from an individual leadership point of view, CEOs and CEO transitions are a big part of our work, right? You know, there's very little in your career that can prepare you for that job because there's not another one of them, right? You're the only one of you in the company.

Speaker 1

05:37 - 06:02

And if you've not done it before, first time CEOs can get up there and find themselves enormously disoriented. So just helping people transition into the job and making sure they stick the landing and making sure they know how to set their agenda and what they should they first do in their six months and how they should they build a team around them and how do they set strategy. You know, some of the very basics of CEO leadership our work we do with leaders.

Speaker 1

06:02 - 06:29

We also talk a lot about how you lead transformation, right? So many CEOs are both given and also perceive themselves to have a mandate of some kind, especially if they're an entering CEO. If they're a startup CEO and they're the founder, then the biggest challenge, of course, is how do you shed your founderism and grow something beyond you? Because most leaders who are founders build an organization around their own identity and then they end up killing their own baby.

Speaker 1

06:31 - 06:47

So how do you affect change and grow an organization and architect something beyond you? And how do you scale? Most CEOs, if they enter at the smaller stage, don't know how to bring maturity about and sort of arc a story of growth. Many of them have never led.

Speaker 1

06:48 - 07:02

It's astounding how many CEOs go from leading a team of eight people to suddenly leading hundreds of people because they had a too fast rise. And so they get altitude sickness, right? They just get up there and they get too high. So we accompany CEOs on that journey.

Speaker 1

07:02 - 07:06

Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. And you might've already touched on this.

Speaker 1

07:06 - 07:21

What do you feel is kind of like your secret sauce, but what makes you guys unique? We get the role. I mean, when it comes to executive leadership and the requirements of effect and change, we have a deep empathy and understanding for what that takes. We're not just coaches.

Speaker 1

07:21 - 07:32

We're not just consultants. We're trusted advisors. Our relationship with our executives are intimate relationships that span many years. We don't come in and fix your hair up and tell you to sit up straight and go home.

Speaker 1

07:33 - 07:59

We understand that this is deeper work and it's longer work and harder work. And so I think because we go the distance, I think what our executives tell us is what sets us apart is how much we care and how committed we are. We bring a lot to the table in terms of content and understanding of what it means to sit at the top of an enterprise. but what it takes to actually help a leader get better at that, and how much we care to make sure it happens, which means we don't pull any punches, right?

Speaker 1

07:59 - 08:18

So I think one of the things that clients appreciate at us is that you're never gonna wonder where you stand. You can get the unbridled truth from us, and sometimes it won't be easy to hear, but it's the truth that nobody else is gonna tell you. Right, and that makes perfect sense a lot of times. Like you mentioned, actually knowing the position, not just saying you know the position or hearing about the position.

Speaker 1

08:18 - 08:39

You guys actually know that and know and can provide that insight. And a lot of times that's the type of advice that you need. And sometimes when you kind of insulate yourself with yes, men or women, you always hear the things that you want to hear, but you want to hear the right things because ultimately I think most probably CEOs, entrepreneurs and business owners want to be successful and they need people like that in order to make that happen.

Speaker 1

08:39 - 09:02

And most of them don't know that, right? So they, most of them, as they go to hire people, they don't realize they're hiring in their own image and then they don't realize that when they, um, having done that, they're going to get people who just give them the answer they want to hear. They also don't realize that when they hear some, when they hear bad news, how to respond, but they don't know how to manage their emotions. They don't know how to get angry.

Speaker 1

09:02 - 09:34

Um, they either don't filter their anger or they suppress their anger. And I tell CEOs all the time, look, you're allowed to be angry as long as you plan on it, but you have to be very thoughtful about what your anger in your role means to an organization. Um, so, It's hard, and once you've set that culture in place where people don't tell you the truth, now you've created a whole organization built on deceit. And one of the biggest challenges I get from executives all the time is I can't get good information.

Speaker 1

09:35 - 09:58

I can't get good data. It's all spun, it's all sanitized, it's all filtered, and I can't make good decisions based on data that I can't rely on. Nice. And so you help, uh, you guys help, you know, organizations, I guess, figure out how they can get the actual data or the steps they need to take, I guess, in order to make sure that they are getting the actual data they need to make the decisions in

Speaker 1

09:58 - 10:15

order to be successful. And how to get the leaders around them. He'll give it to them. I had to make sure the governance of the organization is based on honesty, that people are governing with, with, with shared feedback, with truth telling, with dealing with bad news and not sanitizing it.

Speaker 1

10:16 - 10:31

Yeah. And that makes sense. And it kind of makes me think of a point too, where a lot of times you have to create that culture in order to do that. And sometimes, like you mentioned, you will hire your own self in a different way.

Speaker 1

10:31 - 10:52

So sometimes you don't create that culture that makes it possible for you to have those conversations, have those hard conversations a lot of times. But a lot of times it sounds like it starts and begins with the CEO for creating and fostering that culture. Well, it depends on how big the company is, but certainly CEO plays a disproportionate role, right? If it's a smaller company, then it plays an enormous role.

Speaker 1

10:53 - 11:15

And many, many leaders don't know or don't appreciate that their life's now on the jumbotron, right? They, you know, I tell newly arriving executives, whether they're at the top or in the CEO or one of the top jobs, you just assume that you have a megaphone strapped to your mouth 24 seven. Everything you say is amplified. Every action you take, has meaning attached to it, whether you mean it or not.

Speaker 1

11:15 - 11:31

People will quote you as having said things you never said. You can't walk down the hall fast without people thinking, oh my gosh, something's wrong, there's an emergency, or he's gonna yell at somebody. And you have to go to the bathroom. but people are going to make meaning out of it.

Speaker 1

11:31 - 11:48

And you can't control all that. You can't try and manage all that perception, but you certainly can be aware of messages you send or signals you send or cues you're giving that might reinforce behavior you don't want. Right. And I always, I'm a big believer in saying control what you can control.

Speaker 1

11:48 - 12:29

And a lot of times you can't control the reaction that people will have, but you can try to, you know, uh, as much as possible, manage, you know, your actions and things that you do and things that you, Kind of showcase so I appreciate you for sharing that and I wanted to switch gears a little bit and ask you for what I call a CEO hack and this might be an app a book or a habit that you have but it's something that makes you more effective and efficient I wish every CEO would take their mission and value statement off the wall awful off whatever swag that I have it on put it in front of their team and Say let's hold this up as a report card. Let's talk about our How are we not living this?

Speaker 1

12:30 - 12:48

Where in our lives, where are each of us, where in our organization are we not being true to who we said we were? And fix one thing today. That makes perfect sense. And I love that because a lot of times when you're a founder or you have created the business or you're leading the business, a lot of times you lose sight of the mission.

Speaker 1

12:49 - 13:13

and having that in front and using it as a scorecard, as you says, keeps it all in line because a lot of times you can be playing an entirely different game when you should be playing the game that you set out to play. And if you pay attention to the mission and the scorecard, you're able to do that a lot better. So now I wanted to ask you for what I call a CEO nugget, and this is a word of wisdom or piece of advice, or if you can hop into a time machine, what would you tell your younger business self? Don't worry so much about how popular you are.

Speaker 1

13:14 - 13:48

Don't be afraid to disappoint people. Leadership is the ability to disappoint people at a rate they can absorb. If you're a benevolent dictator and you want to try to be Santa Claus and get everybody to love you, and you're saying yes way too many times, you're institutionalizing mediocrity, don't be afraid to say no. For the CEOs who are complete narcissistic, self-absorbed jerks who leave wakes up bodies behind them, I would just say, if you aren't sure if you're that woman or guy, And there's a chance you might be get feedback, make sure you have feedback coming to you all the time.

Speaker 1

13:48 - 14:01

Because if you are, if there's a revolving door, people coming in and out of your company, take the hint, because your best people will quit and leave and your worst people will quit and stay. That's very true. It's painful and painfully true. But no, it makes sense.

Speaker 1

14:01 - 14:20

A lot of times, you know, you can live in a bubble, like we kind of touched on it and say, Oh, it's not me, or it's not that. But a lot of times, like we said, you know, being a leader, is all about creating that culture and marching to a certain drum. And a lot of times people will follow you based off of that. So if you don't like the facts, don't like the things around you, then sometimes it's best to take a look in the mirror.

Speaker 1

14:20 - 14:31

So I appreciate that. And you already touched on this, but I wanted to see if you had anything else. It's my absolute favorite question, which is the definition of what it means to be a CEO. And we're hoping to have different quote unquote CEOs on the show.

Speaker 1

14:31 - 14:44

So Ron, what does being a CEO mean to you? Using your power to change a lot of lives. You have a disproportionate level of power that comes with that role. Do you know the greater good you want to serve with it?

Speaker 1

14:44 - 14:50

And are you serving it? Absolutely. No, I love that definition and that perspective. And Ron, I truly appreciate your time.

Speaker 1

14:50 - 15:04

What I wanted to do was pass you the mic, so to speak, just to see if there's anything additional you can let our readers and our listeners know. And then, of course, how best they can get a hold of you and get a copy of all the exceptional books you've created. Well, I think, you know, I would say, Gresham, first of all, thanks for having me. It's been great.

Speaker 1

15:05 - 15:25

If you're a CEO out there listening to this and you're not sure how good of a CEO you are, get help. There are plenty of people out there who are good at this work. Talk to other CEOs, join YPO, do something. Make sure you are bettering yourself in some way.

Speaker 1

15:25 - 15:39

Do not assume you've arrived. Come hang out with us, we've got lots of great resources. So we're at navlant.com. We've got books, we have a quarterly magazine on leading organizations you can subscribe to for free.

Speaker 1

15:39 - 15:57

We've got great video content you can watch. Certainly, if you're about to lead some significant change, we have a free ebook on leading transformation for CEOs at navlant.com slash transformation. So stay in touch. I'm also, you can find me on Twitter and at Ron Corucci on LinkedIn too.

Speaker 1

15:57 - 16:03

So I would love to keep the conversation going. Nice. I definitely appreciate you. Appreciate your time.

Speaker 1

16:03 - 16:15

Appreciate all the phenomenal work that you're doing as well. We'll have all those links in the show notes so that everybody can follow up with you as well and download all the great content you guys are creating. But thank you again, Ron. I hope you have a phenomenal rest of the day.

Speaker 1

16:15 - 16:24

Gresham, you do the same. Thanks so much for having me. Thanks for Good Book on the Roll. Thank you for listening to the IMCEO podcast powered by CB Nation and Blue 16 Media.

Speaker 1

16:25 - 16:45

Tune in next time and visit us at imceo.co. IMCEO is not just a phrase, it's a community. Don't forget to schedule your complimentary digital marketing consultation at bluesixtymedia.com. This has been the IMCEO podcast with Gresham Harkless Jr.

Speaker 1

16:46 - 16:47

Thank you for listening.