IAM1429 – Who’s Interviewing Who? Eric X Frank X Gresh
Special Throwback Episode - Podcast Interview with Eric Koch and Frank Goodman
This is Gresham Harkless Jr. from CEO Chat powered by CBNation.co and Blue 16 Media. Your choice for all your website design, SEO, and digital marketing needs.
This was a bit of a different interview. This was 3 digital marketers who were just sitting in a room discussing how we got started, future trends in digital marketing, and mistakes that we see people make in marketing and in business.
It wasn’t one person interviewing someone else or a solo podcast as you’ve heard before. I had the opportunity to sit down with Eric Koch of Creative Marketing Zone (Chat #75) and Frank Goodman of Bleeding Bulb (IAM048)
It was us sitting down as if we were in a local coffee shop except we were able to sit down and record live from Alejo Media where Ana Davalos’ (IAM047) This is Gresham from Blue 16 Media and CBNation. Enjoy this CEO Chat!
- Eric’s podcast: https://ceochat.co/interview/chat-75-social-media-expert-talks-about-his-business-why-pre-selling-is-so-important/
- Anna’s podcast: https://iamceo.co/2018/08/20/047-emmy-award-winning-producer-helps-clients-get-their-story-out-to-the-public/
- Frank’s podcast: https://iamceo.co/2018/08/20/048-entrepreneurs-business-is-dedicated-to-raising-the-small-business-success-rate/
- Gresh podcast: https://iamceo.co/2018/11/05/iam100-i-am-ceo-podcast-host-helps-you-build-your-own-media-company/
Episode Link:
- https://ceochat.co/interview/whos-interviewing-who-eric-x-frank-x-gresh/
- https://ceochat.co/interview/chat-75-social-media-expert-talks-about-his-business-why-pre-selling-is-so-important/
- https://iamceo.co/2018/08/20/iam048-entrepreneurs-business-is-dedicated-to-raising-the-small-business-success-rate/
Check out one of our favorite CEO Hack’s Audible. Get your free audiobook and check out more of our favorite CEO Hacks HERE
Transcription
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00:22 – Intro
Do you want to learn effective ways to build relationships, generate sales, and grow your business from successful entrepreneurs, startups, and CEOs without listening to a long, long, long interview? If so, you've come to the right place. Gresham Harkness values your time and is ready to share with you precisely the information you're in search of. This is the I AM CEO podcast.
00:46 – Gresham Harkless
This was a who's interviewing who that we put together, where it was just three of us sitting around just talking about, you know, certain things related to digital marketing. Everything from, how we got started in business, future trends that we see in digital marketing, and even mistakes that we see people make. But it's literally us just kind of sitting around just asking questions of each other. It wasn't like an interview of this person or a solo podcast where one person spoke the entire time. It was just an opportunity for myself, Eric Koch of Creative Marketing Zone, and Frank Goodman and Bleeding Bulb to really just, you know, touch on some of the things that were happening in business, some of the things that we see in our specific world and just perspective and things that we feel.
And having a conversation would also be a benefit to hearing as an entrepreneur and business owner. I thought this was really powerful. Just, again, because it wasn't scripted, it wasn't say this here or you get the questions before. It was literally us just sitting around talking about all these things related to digital marketing trends and all these phenomenal things, how podcasting has impacted some of our businesses, and things like that. If you want to make sure to, of course, check out all the different interviews. I've been blessed enough to have had Eric Frank on my podcast, Eric's on the CEO chat podcast number 75, and Frank, check out the I AM CEO podcast number 48. And really what you can do is kind of envision, like, us just all sitting around at, like, a coffee shop and just literally talking about business.
But the only difference was we actually had microphones, so you can hear what we were kind of talking about at that point. But, you know, again, we weren't at a coffee shop or anything. We were actually at the headquarters for LA Health Media, where Anna Davalos from Alejo actually allowed us to get the opportunity to record there. And that was pretty awesome. And if you want to check out her interview, of course, check out I am CEO number 47, where I had the opportunity to interview her as well. But again, you know, this is really powerful, this general opportunity, us just kind of just talking about, you know, all these things that are going on in business and how it can impact and benefit you as an entrepreneur and business owner.
So definitely, you know, sit back and enjoy this. Who's interviewing who? Featuring myself, Eric Koch, and Frank Goodman. So I wanted to kick everything off because I had both of you guys, like, on my podcast, so I had the opportunity to hear your stories, hear what you got started. But it's funny when I was talking with you, Eric, I feel like I had the most connection because, like, when I was on your podcast, actually, we talked. Talked about I used to work at Circuit City and you worked at CompUSA. So we had, like, Radio Shack. There you go. There you go. We talked about, like, just working retail and getting started and all that stuff. So I wanted to hear, I guess, a little bit more about what got you guys started.
[restrict paid=”true”]
03:21 – Eric Koch
Oh, wow. I mean, well, Radio Shack got me started. Yeah, it's way back. No, that was actually my first early sales experience. And the funny thing is, you know, my background is actually in sales, so it's cold calling, knocking on doors, pounding the pavement, smiling and dialing. Dialing for dollars. I don't even know if they use those terms anymore or if companies still use those practices. But, yeah, that was my background for years. And I actually graduated with a marketing degree, but I didn't actually get into marketing until about 2010, or 2011. And I want to say I faked it till I made it. So, yeah, I actually started searching for jobs for social media in 2011, and so that actually landed me. I got 13 job interviews in, like, two weeks at that time with all these different.
And so when I'm on the interview, I actually. One company decided to hire me. And I remember coming home and I was like, shit, what do I do now? Like, I need to actually learn this shit. Social media. I was like, talking it up during the interview. And they're like, they had all the buzzwords, you know. So then I got. That was my first experience working in an agency. And then I worked there for about a year or so, and then I went off and worked for another company. But this actually, my company started off as a side business, you know, side hustle for a couple. And then it got to a point where it couldn't be a side hustle anymore, you know, I had four.
I had like four clients, and I just couldn't work full time, do this. I was already burning the midnight oil, you know, every day of the week and on the weekends, and have a family. So it was just, you know, I was just like, gosh, there's just not enough time in the day, you know, So I had to really just go off on my own. I actually took my last employer as one of my clients. I've been with them for a few years, and I was doing great work for them.
So I went up to them and said, hey, guys, I've been doing great work for you guys. Guys, we love each other. So not like that, but yeah, sounds like. Here's my recommendation. They already knew eventually I was going to go off of my own, but I said, here's my recommended pricing, and scope of work, and let's do this thing. And they're like. So that helped ease it when I went off of my own. So that's kind of how it all got started for me.
05:32 – Gresham Harkles
Yeah, that makes sense.
05:33 – Eric Koch
Not sure about the why. I mean, I'm still trying to figure that out. Sometimes it's like, maybe because I wanted to sleep all day and not do my own thing, not work for the man, you know, that wasn't the case. But I love, you know, honestly, I mean, being here with you guys, I mean, this is fun, you know, this is just, you know, I can't do this if I'm on a regular 9 to 5. And, you know, honestly, I just feel like, you guys, I'm too creative for a 9 to 5, so.
06:02 – Gresham Harkless
Yeah, same thing for you, Frank.
06:04 – Frank Goodman
Yeah, I mean, I second a lot of that stuff. I mean, I was actually at Radio Shack as well.
06:08 Gresham Harkless
Were you? Okay, I didn't know that. Okay. Not about Circuit City, though. Okay.
06:17 – Frank Goodman
Yeah.
06:18 – Gresham Harkless
But that's definitely.
06:21 – Frank Goodman
It was needed at the time. Like, I mean, the way that they even teach you how to go about sales and just. Even the way that you ask questions, the way that you go about conducting the whole conversation and kind of guiding that conversation, is really impactful. And that kind of opened me up to say, like, man, they make you feel like you can really sell anything.
06:40 – Eric Koch
Yeah.
06:40 – Frank Goodman
You know what I mean?
06:41 – Eric Koch
Absolutely.
06:42 – Frank Goodman
You can really sell anything. So that was really helpful. And even when I was doing Best Buy, that was actually on the side. I was already doing Lockheed Martin and Booz Allen and all of that type of stuff, but I just decided to do it on the side just because I had time as weird as that sounds, but, you know, it was good connecting with different people and still continuing to, like, polish up those skills, like interacting with people, getting into, you know, working on upsells and finding out, you know, tapping into emotion and things like that, you know?
Right. It was kind of like an experiment. Running different experiments, playing around, and understanding a little bit more about psychology and things like that. So I actually piqued my interest a bit. But, you know, we started as a tech shop. So, you know, my background is engineering. I did like undergrad computer engineering and grad system engineering. So everything was really about technology. And at some point, I realized that you know, all these products that we.
07:33- Eric Koch
Were created for different customers, but they didn't.
07:35 – Frank Goodman
Really know what to do with it after that. So it was kind of like I felt like we really weren't serving them in the best way possible. Leaving them out there with this new website thinking that if I make it, they will come.
07:47 – Gresham Harkless
Yeah.
07:49 – Frank Goodman
You put out an app and they just sit there. And so I was like, you know what? Like, as far as building a business, we had to build our own. Why wouldn't we share our experiences? Why wouldn't we continue to experiment more and just give that to the people? So that's when we kind of took it on and started going more in the marketing.
08:07 – Eric Koch
Yeah.
08:07 – Frank Goodman
Space. Yeah.
08:08 – Eric Koch
Yeah. As far as us. Oh, man, them Radio Shack days. It's so funny, man. The customers walk in there. I never thought that we were probably working around the same time at Radio Shack, but I decided it was like a place where people go to get batteries or wires for stuff. Next thing you know, it's like we're popping cell phones, we're selling TVs, we're signing up for the Radio Shack card. We're maxing out that card.
08:31- Gresham Harkless
Really? They didn't have all that stuff at the Radio Shack near me. I know. I had to. I applied for Best Buy. They didn't hire me. That was the first job I applied to. But I got hired at Circuit City because they had all the commission people, I guess they were hired right before me, and then they fired all of them. So then they hired all of us out of high school. So I was making like 875 out of high school. And I was like a king. And I thought I was gonna make it. Yeah.
08:54 – Eric Koch
Just from that.
08:55 – Gresham Harkless
I need to go to school or nothing. 875. I'll be good.
08:59 – Eric Koch
Yeah.
09:00 – Frank Goodman
Yeah. That's funny.
09:03- Eric Koch
Yeah, exactly.
09:08 – Gresham Harkless
That's exactly how it was. But, you know. Yeah, but it's so Funny because I. I learned so many people skills. Like you when you were talking about. I started thinking about the up sales and all that stuff. Do you want to get the maintenance package with that, like all that stuff? Like you still start using now. But that was really like the foundation of everything. I kind of felt like.
09:26 – Eric Koch
So yeah, they had some program. It was like always. Not always. It was always accessorizing or something. Like. So it was like they buy the cell phone, then you gotta sell them the case and the charger.
09:35 – Gresham Harkless
Yeah.
09:38 – Frank Goodman
That's where the money comes from anyway.
09:39 – Eric Koch
Yeah, exactly. Their own Radio Shack stuff. Yeah. But true. I truly believe that you know, and I don't know, I've run into marketers a lot. I don't know if you guys do as well, but they don't have a sales background. They don't have any type of emotional connection or they feel like they're good at maybe behind the scenes or working stuff, you know, digital stuff or social media.
But when it comes to like actual having conversations that actually like build relationships or, or even, you know, sales process type stuff, it's like, it's totally awkward for them and they don't feel comfortable with it. So I say that, you know, I think it's important for anybody, no matter what business or background you're in, you know, to have some sales experience, you know, at least figure it out. Didn't find out, get uncomfortable because I mean, I don't. It doesn't matter. I don't mind if somebody says no to me now. Yeah, it's like no means closer to it.
10:33 – Gresham Harkless
Yes, exactly. Closer to it. Yes.
10:35 – Eric Koch
Right.
10:35 – Frank Goodman
You gotta be one of the most important pieces to growing a business.
10:38- Eric Koch
No question.
10:39 – Frank Goodman
Can't sell.
10:40 – Eric Koch
Yeah, like.
10:41 – Frank Goodman
Yeah, exactly. It's not an option. Like it's something that is required.
10:48 – Eric Koch
Yeah. I met some points you have to learn. Yeah. I met a former IT consultant and I was like, well, why, why did you. He works for a company now. And I was like, why did you decide to stop your consultancy? And he's like because I hated sales. That's crazy.
11:01 – Gresham Harkless
Yeah. What's funny, it's that they say that sales are the lifeline of the business. I think Mark Cuban says, like, the reason that businesses go out of business is not because of anything other than lack of sales. So you're not making enough sales and stuff like that. But I feel like most people that start businesses, they like, they're really good at something, but usually that's not sales. So they just Start a business around, like, whatever it is they're good at, and then they forget that you have to actually sell stuff to be a business.
11:27 – Eric Koch
Yeah. And I don't think, like, sales. I mean, maybe some people. It's the word sales that maybe gets people all, like, a bad taste in their mouth, you know, so, you know, I'm more of like, you know, it's. It's like you're a consultant in a sense.
11:40 – Frank Goodman
You're right.
11:41 – Eric Koch
I mean, right now, I mean, we could just be talking shop and just like having a good time, having a good conversation, and maybe something comes out of it. And it's like, you know, hey, you know, that turns into a sale. You know, it's like, it's not like used car salesman and, you know, slimy type stuff.
11:55 – Gresham Harkles
Insurance guys.
11:56 – Eric Koch
Exactly. I mean, as long as you're always giving value. Right. And that's what. That's. That's what the most important thing is, especially in digital marketing these days. It's like, always be giving value, so.
12:06 – Gresham Harkless
Exactly.
12:07 – Frank Goodman
Say, like, don't go for the sale, just build the relationship.
12:10 – Eric Koch
Yeah, exactly.
12:11 – Frank Goodman
You know what I mean? Just like, make sure that you're giving that value and building that relationship. Because the relationship is the core of everything, right? Yeah. You can build that trust. If you can build that credibility, the sale is naturally going to follow.
12:23 – Eric Koch
Yeah.
12:24 – Frank Goodman
So it's like, just let it flow.
12:26 – Gresham Harkless
Exactly.
12:27 – Eric Koch
It's like on LinkedIn when people reach out to you, and the next thing you know, they're like, trying to shove their product down.
12:31 – Gresham Harkless
I have a workshop coming up next week. I don't even know your name.
12:40 – Eric Koch
It's like, you know, I meet you for the first time and I'm trying to pitch a marriage proposal.
12:44 – Gresham Harkles
Exactly.
12:45 – Eric Koch
Can we get the first base of each first work ourselves on bases, Right?
12:52. – Frank Goodman
No.
12:53 – Gresham Harkless
That's funny.
12:54 – Frank Goodman
Yeah.
12:55 – Gresham Harkless
It's crazy. A lot of people don't get that, like, how big the relationship part is. And it's like the long game and people just, like, they want to push and they do it on social media. I know you probably know, too. Like, I say it all the time. It's like, you know, like Gary Vee says, no, jab, right hook. You give. Then you ask, but you don't just say, hey, I got this, I got that, and buy this, buy that. You know, you turn people off from that, so.
13:13 – Eric Koch
Exactly. Yeah, I mean, that's. I see that all the time. Like clients. A lot of clients don't, especially mine, don't understand that. And when it comes to social media, they think that it's just an advertising platform which, you know, you can run ads and you can target audiences, as you guys know. And you can, but like those are cold. That's a cold audience. You know, it's not like going to Google and actually searching and finding the answer to your question. People don't go on social media to look at ads. People actually go on there to avoid ads.
13:43 – Gresham Harkless
Yeah.
13:43 – Eric Koch
So, yeah, so you're working with a cold audience. So you really have to. That's why it's like, it's hard. You know, you have to like have that good call to action. You have to get them to stop in their tracks and have that good call to action, a good image, a good video, and then from there, you gotta like retarget them. So it's not as easy as some people think it is, you know when it comes to social media. That's why I truly believe the real power of social media is building relationships with folks and networking and just going that route versus trying to focus your energy on ads, you know. Yeah. Play the long game, you know, and.
14:18 – Frank Goodman
Even as far as the ads go, it's like you don't really want just to do ads without a strategy either.
14:23 – Eric Koch
Right.
14:24 – Frank Goodman
Should be thinking more, you know from a holistic view. You should really just be focusing on, okay, this, and then what? Yeah, really, Like I almost believe. Well, I believe you shouldn't really run your business off of ads. So there should be other structures. Dreams like that can't be your primary way of making money because then like air prices go up and then what?
14:46 – Eric Koch
Yeah.
14:46 – Frank Goodman
Leaves them.
14:47 – Eric Koch
What?
14:47- Frank Goodman
Yeah, it's just too much.
14:49 – Gresham Harkless
Yeah.
14:50 – Frank Goodman
Waiting on that one source. So it's important that you actually come up with a strategy because marketing is not ads. That's a component. Like that's just a little piece.
14:59 – Gresham Harkless
Yeah.
14:59 – Frank Goodman
You know, that's a piece of the puzzle. So it's important for your marketing strategy that you're thinking across, you know, more than just social media, more than just, you know, running ads and things like that.
15:10 – Gresham Harkless
You know what's funny because when I do some presentations, sometimes I'll say like, you know, they talk about the average millionaire, you know, has like seven or eight streams of revenue. It's like you should have that same mentality when you're running your business. Shouldn't just be ads, it should be face-to-face networking referrals. Oh yeah, Facebook ads maybe, then Google Ads. You're getting business from everywhere but like Most people are like, I get all my business from word of mouth. I don't need to do anything else. I don't need to have a website. I don't need to do SEO. I don't need an app. I don't need any of that stuff. Everything comes to me, word of mouth. But what happens if that rises up?
15:38 – Eric Koch
Yeah, exactly.
15:39 – Gresham Harkless
What are you gonna do?
15:39 – Eric Koch
Yep. So that's true.
15:41 – Gresham Harkless
I appreciate you guys, like, taking some time out. I guess I wanted to give you the opportunity to kind of just say how people can get a hold of you a little bit more about your business than anything else.
15:49 – Eric Koch
Yeah, I guess I'll go first. The creativemarketingzone.com is where I'm at. You can find me on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn. So I got a lot of freebie stuff you can take advantage of.
16:01 – Frank Goodman
As far as me, you can find me at bleedingbold.com.
16:06 – Gresham Harkless
Awesome. Well, again, I appreciate you guys. Yeah, that's it.
16:09 – Eric Koch
Yeah. Thanks, Gresh. This is fun.
16:13 – Outro
Thank you for listening to the I AM CEO Podcast powered by Blue 16 Media. Tune in next time and visit us at iamceo.co I AM CEO is not just a phrase, it's a community. Be sure to follow us on social media and subscribe to our podcast on iTunes Google Play and everywhere you listen to podcasts, SUBSCRIBE, and leave us a five-star rating grab CEO gear at www.ceogear.co. This has been the I AM CEO Podcast with Gresham Harkless. Thank you for listening.
00:22 - Intro
Do you want to learn effective ways to build relationships, generate sales, and grow your business from successful entrepreneurs, startups, and CEOs without listening to a long, long, long interview? If so, you've come to the right place. Gresham Harkness values your time and is ready to share with you precisely the information you're in search of. This is the I AM CEO podcast.
00:46 - Gresham Harkless
This was a who's interviewing who that we put together, where it was just three of us sitting around just talking about, you know, certain things related to digital marketing. Everything from,, how we got started in business, future trends that we see in digital marketing, and even mistakes that we see people make. But it's literally us just kind of sitting around just asking questions of each other. It wasn't like an interview of this person or a solo podcast where one person spoke the entire time. It was just an opportunity for myself, Eric Koch of Creative Marketing Zone, and Frank Goodman and Bleeding Bulb to really just, you know, touch on some of the things that were happening in business, some of the things that we see in our specific world and just perspective and things that we feel.
And having a conversation would also be a benefit to hearing as an entrepreneur and business owner. I thought this was really powerful. Just, again, because it wasn't scripted, it wasn't say this here or you get the questions before. It was literally us just sitting around talking about all these things related to digital marketing trends and all these phenomenal things, how podcasting has impacted some of our businesses, and things like that. If you want to make sure to, of course, check out all the different interviews. I've been blessed enough to have had Eric Frank on my podcast, Eric's on the CEO chat podcast number 75, and Frank, check out the I AM CEO podcast number 48. And really what you can do is kind of envision, like, us just all sitting around at, like, a coffee shop and just literally talking about business.
But the only difference was we actually had microphones, so you can hear what we were kind of talking about at that point. But, you know, again, we weren't at a coffee shop or anything. We were actually at the headquarters for LA Health Media, where Anna Davalos from Alejo actually allowed us to get the opportunity to record there. And that was pretty awesome. And if you want to check out her interview, of course, check out I am CEO number 47, where I had the opportunity to interview her as well. But again, you know, this is really powerful, this general opportunity, us just kind of just talking about, you know, all these things that are going on in business and how it can impact and benefit you as an entrepreneur and business owner.
So definitely, you know, sit back and enjoy this. Who's interviewing who? Featuring myself, Eric Koch, and Frank Goodman. So I wanted to kick everything off because I had both of you guys, like, on my podcast, so I had the opportunity to hear your stories, hear what you got started. But it's funny when I was talking with you, Eric, I feel like I had the most connection because, like, when I was on your podcast, actually, we talked. Talked about I used to work at Circuit City and you worked at CompUSA. So we had, like, Radio Shack. There you go. There you go. We talked about, like, just working retail and getting started and all that stuff. So I wanted to hear, I guess, a little bit more about what got you guys started.
03:21 - Eric Koch
Oh, wow. I mean, well, Radio Shack got me started. Yeah, it's way back. No, that was actually my first early sales experience. And the funny thing is, you know, my background is actually in sales, so it's cold calling, knocking on doors, pounding the pavement, smiling and dialing. Dialing for dollars. I don't even know if they use those terms anymore or if companies still use those practices. But, yeah, that was my background for years. And I actually graduated with a marketing degree, but I didn't actually get into marketing until about 2010, or 2011. And I want to say I faked it till I made it. So, yeah, I actually started searching for jobs for social media in 2011, and so that actually landed me. I got 13 job interviews in, like, two weeks at that time with all these different.
And so when I'm on the interview, I actually. One company decided to hire me. And I remember coming home and I was like, shit, what do I do now? Like, I need to actually learn this shit. Social media. I was like, talking it up during the interview. And they're like, they had all the buzzwords, you know. So then I got. That was my first experience working in an agency. And then I worked there for about a year or so, and then I went off and worked for another company. But this actually, my company started off as a side business, you know, side hustle for a couple. And then it got to a point where it couldn't be a side hustle anymore, you know, I had four.
I had like four clients, and I just couldn't work full time, do this. I was already burning the midnight oil, you know, every day of the week and on the weekends, and have a family. So it was just, you know, I was just like, gosh, there's just not enough time in the day, you know, So I had to really just go off on my own. I actually took my last employer as one of my clients. I've been with them for a few years, and I was doing great work for them. So I went up to them and said, hey, guys, I've been doing great work for you guys. Guys, we love each other. So not like that, but yeah, sounds like. Here's my recommendation. They already knew eventually I was going to go off of my own, but I said, here's my recommended pricing, and scope of work, and let's do this thing. And they're like. So that helped ease it when I went off of my own. So that's kind of how it all got started for me.
05:32 - Gresham Harkles
Yeah, that makes sense.
05:33 - Eric Koch
Not sure about the why. I mean, I'm still trying to figure that out. Sometimes it's like, maybe because I wanted to sleep all day and not do my own thing, not work for the man, you know, that wasn't the case. But I love, you know, honestly, I mean, being here with you guys, I mean, this is fun, you know, this is just, you know, I can't do this if I'm on a regular 9 to 5. And, you know, honestly, I just feel like, you guys, I'm too creative for a 9 to 5, so.
06:02 - Gresham Harkless
Yeah, same thing for you, Frank.
06:04 - Frank Goodman
Yeah, I mean, I second a lot of that stuff. I mean, I was actually at Radio Shack as well.
06:08 Gresham Harkless
Were you? Okay, I didn't know that. Okay. Not about Circuit City, though. Okay.
06:17 - Frank Goodman
Yeah.
06:18 - Gresham Harkless
But that's definitely.
06:21 - Frank Goodman
It was needed at the time. Like, I mean, the way that they even teach you how to go about sales and just. Even the way that you ask questions, the way that you go about conducting the whole conversation and kind of guiding that conversation, is really impactful. And that kind of opened me up to say, like, man, they make you feel like you can really sell anything.
06:40 - Eric Koch
Yeah.
06:40 - Frank Goodman
You know what I mean?
06:41 - Eric Koch
Absolutely.
06:42 - Frank Goodman
You can really sell anything. So that was really helpful. And even when I was doing Best Buy, that was actually on the side. I was already doing Lockheed Martin and Booz Allen and all of that type of stuff, but I just decided to do it on the side just because I had time as weird as that sounds, but, you know, it was good connecting with different people and still continuing to, like, polish up those skills, like interacting with people, getting into, you know, working on upsells and finding out, you know, tapping into emotion and things like that, you know?
Right. It was kind of like an experiment. Running different experiments, playing around, and understanding a little bit more about psychology and things like that. So I actually piqued my interest a bit. But, you know, we started as a tech shop. So, you know, my background is engineering. I did like undergrad computer engineering and grad system engineering. So everything was really about technology. And at some point, I realized that you know, all these products that we.
07:33- Eric Koch
Were created for different customers, but they didn't.
07:35 - Frank Goodman
Really know what to do with it after that. So it was kind of like I felt like we really weren't serving them in the best way possible. Leaving them out there with this new website thinking that if I make it, they will come.
07:47 - Gresham Harkless
Yeah.
07:49 - Frank Goodman
You put out an app and they just sit there. And so I was like, you know what? Like, as far as building a business, we had to build our own. Why wouldn't we share our experiences? Why wouldn't we continue to experiment more and just give that to the people? So that's when we kind of took it on and started going more in the marketing.
08:07 - Eric Koch
Yeah.
08:07 - Frank Goodman
Space. Yeah.
08:08 - Eric Koch
Yeah. As far as us. Oh, man, them Radio Shack days. It's so funny, man. The customers walk in there. I never thought that we were probably working around the same time at Radio Shack, but I decided it was like a place where people go to get batteries or wires for stuff. Next thing you know, it's like we're popping cell phones, we're selling TVs, we're signing up for the Radio Shack card. We're maxing out that card.
08:31- Gresham Harkless
Really? They didn't have all that stuff at the Radio Shack near me. I know. I had to. I applied for Best Buy. They didn't hire me. That was the first job I applied to. But I got hired at Circuit City because they had all the commission people, I guess they were hired right before me, and then they fired all of them. So then they hired all of us out of high school. So I was making like 875 out of high school. And I was like a king. And I thought I was gonna make it. Yeah.
08:54 - Eric Koch
Just from that.
08:55 - Gresham Harkless
I need to go to school or nothing. 875. I'll be good.
08:59 - Eric Koch
Yeah.
09:00 - Frank Goodman
Yeah. That's funny.
09:03- Eric Koch
Yeah, exactly.
09:08 - Gresham Harkless
That's exactly how it was. But, you know. Yeah, but it's so Funny because I. I learned so many people skills. Like you when you were talking about. I started thinking about the up sales and all that stuff. Do you want to get the maintenance package with that, like all that stuff? Like you still start using now. But that was really like the foundation of everything. I kind of felt like.
09:26 - Eric Koch
So yeah, they had some program. It was like always. Not always. It was always accessorizing or something. Like. So it was like they buy the cell phone, then you gotta sell them the case and the charger.
09:35 - Gresham Harkless
Yeah.
09:38 - Frank Goodman
That's where the money comes from anyway.
09:39 - Eric Koch
Yeah, exactly. Their own Radio Shack stuff. Yeah. But true. I truly believe that you know, and I don't know, I've run into marketers a lot. I don't know if you guys do as well, but they don't have a sales background. They don't have any type of emotional connection or they feel like they're good at maybe behind the scenes or working stuff, you know, digital stuff or social media.
But when it comes to like actual having conversations that actually like build relationships or, or even, you know, sales process type stuff, it's like, it's totally awkward for them and they don't feel comfortable with it. So I say that, you know, I think it's important for anybody, no matter what business or background you're in, you know, to have some sales experience, you know, at least figure it out. Didn't find out, get uncomfortable because I mean, I don't. It doesn't matter. I don't mind if somebody says no to me now. Yeah, it's like no means closer to it.
10:33 - Gresham Harkless
Yes, exactly. Closer to it. Yes.
10:35 - Eric Koch
Right.
10:35 - Frank Goodman
You gotta be one of the most important pieces to growing a business.
10:38- Eric Koch
No question.
10:39 - Frank Goodman
Can't sell.
10:40 - Eric Koch
Yeah, like.
10:41 - Frank Goodman
Yeah, exactly. It's not an option. Like it's something that is required.
10:48 - Eric Koch
Yeah. I met some points you have to learn. Yeah. I met a former IT consultant and I was like, well, why, why did you. He works for a company now. And I was like, why did you decide to stop your consultancy? And he's like because I hated sales. That's crazy.
11:01 - Gresham Harkless
Yeah. What's funny, it's that they say that sales are the lifeline of the business. I think Mark Cuban says, like, the reason that businesses go out of business is not because of anything other than lack of sales. So you're not making enough sales and stuff like that. But I feel like most people that start businesses, they like, they're really good at something, but usually that's not sales. So they just Start a business around, like, whatever it is they're good at, and then they forget that you have to actually sell stuff to be a business.
11:27 - Eric Koch
Yeah. And I don't think, like, sales. I mean, maybe some people. It's the word sales that maybe gets people all, like, a bad taste in their mouth, you know, so, you know, I'm more of like, you know, it's. It's like you're a consultant in a sense. You know, you're just.
11:40 - Frank Goodman
You're.
11:41 - Eric Koch
I mean, right now, I mean, we could just be talking shop and just like having a good time, having a good conversation, and maybe something comes out of it. And it's like, you know, hey, you know, that turns into a sale. You know, it's like, it's not like used car salesman and, you know, slimy type stuff.
11:55 - Gresham Harkles
Insurance guys.
11:56 - Eric Koch
Exactly. I mean, as long as you're always giving value. Right. And that's what. That's. That's what the most important thing is, especially in digital marketing these days. It's like, always be giving value, so.
12:06 - Gresham Harkless
Exactly.
12:07 - Frank Goodman
Say, like, don't go for the sale, just build the relationship.
12:10 - Eric Koch
Yeah, exactly.
12:11 - Frank Goodman
You know what I mean? Just like, make sure that you're giving that value and building that relationship. Because the relationship is the core of everything, right? Yeah. You can build that trust. If you can build that credibility, the sale is naturally going to follow.
12:23 - Eric Koch
Yeah.
12:24 - Frank Goodman
So it's like, just let it flow.
12:26 - Gresham Harkless
Exactly.
12:27 - Eric Koch
It's like on LinkedIn when people reach out to you, and the next thing you know, they're like, trying to shove their product down.
12:31 - Gresham Harkless
I have a workshop coming up next week. I don't even know your name.
12:40 - Eric Koch
It's like, you know, I meet you for the first time and I'm trying to pitch a marriage proposal.
12:44 - Gresham Harkles
Exactly.
12:45 - Eric Koch
Can we get the first base of each first work ourselves on bases, Right?
12:52. - Frank Goodman
No.
12:53 - Gresham Harkless
That's funny.
12:54 - Frank Goodman
Yeah.
12:55 - Gresham Harkless
It's crazy. A lot of people don't get that, like, how big the relationship part is. And it's like the long game and people just, like, they want to push and they do it on social media. I know you probably know, too. Like, I say it all the time. It's like, you know, like Gary Vee says, no, jab, right hook. You give. Then you ask, but you don't just say, hey, I got this, I got that, and buy this, buy that. You know, you turn people off from that, so.
13:13 - Eric Koch
Exactly. Yeah, I mean, that's. I see that all the time. Like clients. A lot of clients don't, especially mine, don't understand that. And when it comes to social media, they think that it's just an advertising platform which, you know, you can run ads and you can target audiences, as you guys know. And you can, but like those are cold. That's a cold audience. You know, it's not like going to Google and actually searching and finding the answer to your question. People don't go on social media to look at ads. People actually go on there to avoid ads.
13:43 - Gresham Harkless
Yeah.
13:43 - Eric Koch
So, yeah, so you're working with a cold audience. So you really have to. That's why it's like, it's hard. You know, you have to like have that good call to action. You have to get them to stop in their tracks and have that good call to action, a good image, a good video, and then from there, you gotta like retarget them. So it's not as easy as some people think it is, you know when it comes to social media. That's why I truly believe the real power of social media is building relationships with folks and networking and just going that route versus trying to focus your energy on ads, you know. Yeah. Play the long game, you know, and.
14:18 - Frank Goodman
Even as far as the ads go, it's like you don't really want just to do ads without a strategy either.
14:23 - Eric Koch
Right.
14:24 - Frank Goodman
Should be thinking more, you know from a holistic view. You should really just be focusing on, okay, this, and then what? Yeah, really, Like I almost believe. Well, I believe you shouldn't really run your business off of ads. So there should be other structures. Dreams like that can't be your primary way of making money because then like air prices go up and then what?
14:46 - Eric Koch
Yeah.
14:46 - Frank Goodman
Leaves them.
14:47 - Eric Koch
What?
14:47- Frank Goodman
Yeah, it's just too much.
14:49 - Gresham Harkless
Yeah.
14:50 - Frank Goodman
Waiting on that one source. So it's important that you actually come up with a strategy because marketing is not ads. That's a component. Like that's just a little piece.
14:59 - Gresham Harkless
Yeah.
14:59 - Frank Goodman
You know, that's a piece of the puzzle. So it's important for your marketing strategy that you're thinking across, you know, more than just social media, more than just, you know, running ads and things like that.
15:10 - Gresham Harkless
You know what's funny because when I do some presentations, sometimes I'll say like, you know, they talk about the average millionaire, you know, has like seven or eight streams of revenue. It's like you should have that same mentality when you're running your business. Shouldn't just be ads, it should be face-to-face networking referrals. Oh yeah, Facebook ads maybe, then Google Ads. You're getting business from everywhere but like Most people are like, I get all my business from word of mouth. I don't need to do anything else. I don't need to have a website. I don't need to do SEO. I don't need an app. I don't need any of that stuff. Everything comes to me, word of mouth. But what happens if that rises up?
15:38 - Eric Koch
Yeah, exactly.
15:39 - Gresham Harkless
What are you gonna do?
15:39 - Eric Koch
Yep. So that's true.
15:41 - Gresham Harkless
I appreciate you guys, like, taking some time out. I guess I wanted to give you the opportunity to kind of just say how people can get a hold of you a little bit more about your business than anything else.
15:49 - Eric Koch
Yeah, I guess I'll go first. The creativemarketingzone.com is where I'm at. You can find me on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn. So I got a lot of freebie stuff you can take advantage of.
16:01 - Frank Goodman
As far as me, you can find me at bleedingbold.com.
16:06 - Gresham Harkless
Awesome. Well, again, I appreciate you guys. Yeah, that's it.
16:09 - Eric Koch
Yeah. Thanks, Gresh. This is fun.
16:13 - Outro
Thank you for listening to the I AM CEO Podcast powered by Blue 16 Media. Tune in next time and visit us at iamceo.co I AM CEO is not just a phrase, it's a community. Be sure to follow us on social media and subscribe to our podcast on iTunes Google Play and everywhere you listen to podcasts, SUBSCRIBE, and leave us a five-star rating grab CEO gear at www.ceogear.co. This has been the I AM CEO Podcast with Gresham Harkless. Thank you for listening.
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