– HR Open Standards that define interoperability standards for HR technology.
– Association of Test Publishers and the European Association of Test Publishers that represents providers of tests and assessment tools.
Eric is an accomplished public speaker and currently serves as the Executive Director of the Talent Transformation Build.
- CEO Hack: (i) Book summaries (ii) YouTube
- CEO Nugget: Learn about emotional intelligence sooner than later
- CEO Defined: Dealing with the realities of a business
Website: https://www.talenttransformation.com/
Book: www.talenttransformation.com/Talent-Transformation-Book
LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shepherd-eric/
Bio on the organization's website: https://talenttransformation.com/ericshepherd
Twitter: @EricShepherd
Full Interview:
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Transcription
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00:23 – Intro
Are you ready to hear business stories and learn effective ways to build relationships, generate sales, and level up your business from awesome CEOs, entrepreneurs, and founders without listening to a long, long, long interview? If so, you've come to the right place. Gresh values your time and is ready to share with you the valuable info you're in search of. This is the I AM CEO Podcast.
00:51 – Gresham Harkless
Hello, Hello, Hello. This is Gresh from the I AM CEO Podcast. I have a very special guest on the show today. I have Eric Shepherd of Talent Transformation Guild. Eric, it's awesome having you on the show.
00:59 – Eric Shepherd
Well, thank you so much for inviting me, Gresh. Good to be here.
01:02 – Gresham Harkless
Definitely super excited to have you on and ready to kind of jump in to hear all the awesome things you're doing. But before we do that, I want to read a little bit more about Eric so you hear about all these awesome things that he's doing. And Eric is an accomplished leader of international businesses and associations focused on talent, assessment, and success. Eric recently stepped away from a CEO role where he worked to build a SaaS company into a multimillion-dollar international assessment software business. Eric also led industry and standards initiatives to promote best practices for assessment learning and interoperability.
He currently serves as the chair of the IEEE recommended practice for defining competencies. Eric has previously served on boards and worked on groups that have included HR open standards that define interoperability, standards for HR technology, the association of test publishers, and the European Association of Test Publishers which represents providers of tests and assessment tools. Eric is an accomplished public speaker and currently serves as the executive director of the Talent Transformation Guild. Eric, are you ready to speak to the I AM CEO community?
[restrict paid=”true”]
02:03 – Eric Shepherd
I am looking forward to it.
02:05 – Gresham Harkless
Awesome. Well, let's do it then. So to kind of kick everything off, I know I touched a little bit on your background and all the awesome work that led you to where you are today. Could you take us through what I like to call your CEO story? We'll let you get started with all this awesome work.
02:16 – Eric Shepherd
Yeah, sure. So as you might be able to tell from my accent, I'm originally from the UK. I stumbled into the IT industry kind of early on in my life. And in that, I ended up being on a board of directors in the UK in my 20s. And with that got transferred to the US. An interesting story there is that, the day that I arrived, the previous CEO had emptied the bank accounts. And so I started kind of taking over a business with no money. But luckily I had the backing of the original he, then, we were a subsidiary of a British company. So, but that was kind of interesting, you know, you can imagine flying to a new country, assuming the management of staff and direction strategy, and then realizing that there wasn't any money in the bank and having to go back.
And so that was an interesting period. I then worked to build a team, build the software distribution, and got involved in sales support to help some large distributors of the products and distribute the software product throughout the United States. Learned a lot about comparing contrasting cultures between the UK and the US, And so developed this understanding of doing technology transfers from other countries into the US, because I got this understanding of culture. So I started a business called International Presence. And that what that business was to do was represent overseas companies here in the US, but dressed them up in US-looking clothes.
So the people thought they were working with a US company and were very successful in that during the nineties and ended up buying and selling some companies in that model. I got involved with a company called Question Mark. Originally as a distributor, it was part of this international presence representation. And we were kind of having a lot of fun together and learning a lot together. So I ended up being the CEO of that company and took it from small beginnings, selling DOS software, Windows software, Macintosh software, and built it up into an installable software and SaaS business, software as a service business, where people could develop and deliver and report on assessment.
So I learned a lot about assessing people's knowledge and skills and whether they could do things. And there was a, from a CEO standpoint, we went through a lot of different phases together. So we had to deal with the 9-11 and the impact on our business through 9-11. We had to go through, unfortunately, some passing of key staff in the middle of our boom periods. We then went through the consolidations that were driven by the 2008 financial crisis and then pulled out of that and transitioned customers into a software-as-a-service platform. And all of these are kind of challenging.
And so I learned a lot about myself and others during that period. Then got to a point where, although I was traveling the world meeting wonderful people around the world, many countries, and we were delivering tens of millions of tests and exams around the world, helping a lot of people achieve great things, I started to find myself in a Groundhog Day situation. I'd wake up and feel like I was doing the same thing. So we developed a plan that I could leave the business and kind of come back and refine myself in order to pursue something that would be much more stimulating than just operating on the ground the whole day.
06:02 – Gresham Harkless
I want to drill down a little here a little bit more on what you're doing with the Talent Transformation Guild. Could you take us through a little bit more about that and how you're serving the clients you're working with?
06:10 – Eric Shepherd
Yeah, absolutely. So, I sat down from a previous CEO role and that was all about assessing knowledge and skills. What I was really intrigued by was how we assess personalities, emotional intelligence, and behavior. So the kind of softer side of the world. And we could see that the fourth industrial revolution was coming along, and that was going to change a lot of job roles and the tasks that we do. And so we knew that assessing softer skills or mindset was going to be a key part. So I spent the first few months learning and studying and going on courses and getting certified, getting certified as a coach, so I could understand that those aspects and being a CEO on one side and then understanding coaching on the other was a really useful economic.
I then started talking to people about how we fit kind of hard skills and soft skills or mindset and skillset, how we fit that together to help the C-suite and managers understand what underpins behaviors in the workplace, etc. So I spent time talking with friends, having people over for dinner, and just focusing on this issue and came up with this thing called the Talent Transformation Pyramid. And Talent Transformation Pyramid is a way of illustrating what supports behaviors on the job and what supports capabilities, how we can put that into competencies, and how those competencies will then drive outcomes and recognize there's a place for swap analysis and allocating resources, but we focus very much on this talent aspect and how it's gonna change.
So developed this picture, the Talent Transformation Pyramid, and people loved it. And they said, well, you can't just leave this here. You've got to write something more about this. So I wrote a book and the book's called Talent Transformation, how to Develop People for the 21st Century. It's not the full title, talent transformation, Eric Shepard, you'll find it on Amazon. And so it drilled into each one of the factors that impact our performance on the job. So what are our underlying personality traits? And, and, and what's the, what can we change? What can't, what we can't change? And then how can we layer on top of that emotional intelligence?
So just as I said, going onto stage, I was feeling tired and cranky, but I just had to turn it on to put on that veneer and step up by my game to do it. That kind of emotional intelligence allows you to do that. You understand yourself, you understand others. And then depending on the situation, you'll behave differently. We all know if we go to a sports game, we'll behave in one way. We go to a fine dining restaurant, we'll behave another way. When we're in a boardroom, we behave another way. So this is all situational. And so helping people recognize this stuff is all teased out in this book.
So we wrote the book and then people were saying to us, well, but the world's changing so quickly. We need help with this about staying relevant as the world is changing. So could you give us some information feeds about that? So we started setting up podcasts and webcasts and blog articles to help people understand what's changing as far as technology, how it's impacting the world in business models, and the way we deal with the talent within an organization.
So do we build talent? Do we buy in the talent with consultants? Do we use gig workers? Or do we put it off to technology, to automation? We say, well, all these tasks we're doing, It's silly, we do them, let's get a computer to do them. So that's what the Talent Transformation Guild does. It brings this information together to help people stay relevant during all this dramatic change, specifically for the future of work, learning, and leadership.
10:01 – Gresham Harkless
I guess I wanted to ask, do you consider that to be what I call your secret sauce? The thing you feel kind of sets either you or your organization apart and makes it unique. Is it that ability to kind of see that, but also I think be able to communicate that in so many different ways? So it just also arms the people with the ability to be able to navigate a lot of those changes?
10:19 – Eric Shepherd
I think part of the secret sauce, so the answer is yes, and to expand on that a little more, part of the secret sauce is that I think if we don't get this transition right into the fourth industrial revolution where AI and machine learning are taking over so many jobs. If we don't get it right, there's going to be a lot of people feeling disenfranchised. And as I would head into retirement, I don't want to have social unrest. I want people to enjoy their work and their social lives. And so the contribution that I can make is by helping people understand this information. So part of it, I think, is that having a reason to be passionate about something is part of a secret sauce.
In previous organizations, when I've been passionate about something, it doesn't feel like work. It feels like it's a calling and it's a mission. So I think part of it is kind of get grounded in yourself, but what's real, what are you really doing it for? If you're really doing it for money, you're probably going to find that dissatisfying unless you can connect the money to doing something like I want to help my family live a better life or I want to contribute to charity or something. So there is a way to a purpose through money. But understanding your purpose will kind of get you up in the morning and deal with the daily hassles that we have to deal with.
11:37 – Gresham Harkless
Yeah, absolutely. And so I want to switch gears a bit and ask you for what I call a CEO hack. So this could be like an Apple book or a habit that you have, but what's something that makes you more effective and efficient?
11:49 – Eric Shepherd
So one thing is I love book summaries in different guises. I do love audiobooks from Audible, so I can get the collective wisdom of the crowd. The challenge with audiobooks is they could be between 5 and 8 hours and typically I'll get 3 or 4 kinds of inspiring ideas out of the book. So it's a, you know, it's kind of use a lot of time in order to get that. But then there are other ways out there of getting similar kinds of information to help you. And YouTube is a great resource. You put in the keywords of a puzzle into YouTube and it's gonna come up with a video.
12:32 – Gresham Harkless
Gresham Harkless: Awesome, awesome, awesome. So now I wanted to ask you for what I call a CEO nugget. So this could be a word of wisdom or a piece of advice. It might be something if you were to hop into a time machine you would tell your younger business self or you might even recommend this or say this to a client.
12:45 – Eric Shepherd
One of the things I would like to say to my younger self is to learn about emotional intelligence sooner rather than later so that you can understand yourself, you can understand others. And there are some very basic and simple things to understand kind of the neuroscience, the biology of the brain, of how you will be triggered into fight or flight, and then recognizing that, recognizing your emotions and behaviors, and so, and just, and making a conscious decision about what's the most effective thing to do at the time, regardless of what emotions you might be experiencing, to search for that, the desired outcome.
13:28 – Gresham Harkless
Awesome, Awesome, Awesome. Well, I want to ask you now my absolute favorite question, which is the definition of what it means to be a CEO. And we're hoping to have different quote-unquote CEOs on the show. So Eric, what does being a CEO mean to you?
13:39 – Eric Shepherd
I think it's dealing with the realities of a business as far as the key metrics, customer satisfaction, financial metrics, ensuring you have the systems and processes to be efficient and learning, and helping your people develop. So that's kind of balanced scorecard stuff. And that provides dashboards to help you keep focused on being successful, but then also being the coach and the nurturer. One metaphor that I enjoyed was that a gardener doesn't go around a gardener and dig up plants to see how well they're doing. They nurture them, you know, some might even talk to them, but they're a little crazy, but they would water them and make sure that they have fertilizer.
And that's what we need to do with the people around us. We don't, there are times when we've got to hold people accountable, and we've got to hold them to account. And there are times when we've got to coach them and hopefully envision the kind of missing piece of the jigsaw that they have and why they're not progressing or producing the way we'd like them to. So having that coaching, it's kind of the person who lives between coaching everyone to be successful and paying attention to the metrics to drive the business the way the stakeholders want business to be driven.
14:57 – Gresham Harkless
Eric, truly appreciate that definition. I appreciate your time even more. What I wanted to do is just pass you the mic, so to speak, just to see if there's anything additional you can let our readers and listeners know. And of course, how best they can get out of you, get a copy of the book, find out about all the awesome things that you're working on.
15:11 – Eric Shepherd
Well, thank you so much, Gresham. So if you found this interesting, Talenttransformation.com is the website, and talenttransformation.com slash book will take you to information about the book or you could just search on Amazon for Talent Transformation and Eric Shepherd And you're welcome to reach out to me. The spelling of my last name is often changed. Shepherd is one of those words you can spell multiple ways. So if you just do Eric at talenttransformation.com, you're very welcome to email me. Hopefully, you got the sense. I really enjoy helping people, especially when they're looking to improve their performance as a CEO or they're looking to the future and trying to work out how they're going to deal with new business models and new talent models, et cetera. So feel free to reach out to me and thank you so much, Gresh.
16:00 – Gresham Harkless
I definitely appreciate you, Eric. We will have the links and information in the show notes. And I think one of the things that we often hear is the only constant change. And one of the ways to be, you know, aware of that and in sync with that is to continue to kind of sharpen our saw, so to speak. So I love that you have so much content and information that's available to leaders, you know, to be able to kind of arm themselves as much as possible to be successful. So definitely appreciate you for scratching the surface a little bit on this podcast as well, my friend, and I hope you have a phenomenal day.
16:25 – Outro
Thank you for listening to the I AM CEO Podcast powered by Blue 16 Media. Tune in next time and visit us at iamceo.co I AM CEO is not just a phrase, it's a community. Be sure to follow us on social media and subscribe to our podcast on iTunes Google Play and everywhere you listen to podcasts, SUBSCRIBE, and leave us a five-star rating grab CEO gear at www.ceogear.co. This has been the I AM CEO Podcast with Gresham Harkless. Thank you for listening.
00:23 - Intro
Are you ready to hear business stories and learn effective ways to build relationships, generate sales, and level up your business from awesome CEOs, entrepreneurs, and founders without listening to a long, long, long interview? If so, you've come to the right place. Gresh values your time and is ready to share with you the valuable info you're in search of. This is the I AM CEO Podcast.
00:51 - Gresham Harkless
Hello, Hello, Hello. This is Gresh from the I AM CEO Podcast. I have a very special guest on the show today. I have Eric Shepherd of Talent Transformation Guild. Eric, it's awesome having you on the show.
00:59 - Eric Shepherd
Well, thank you so much for inviting me, Gresh. Good to be here.
01:02 - Gresham Harkless
Definitely super excited to have you on and ready to kind of jump in to hear all the awesome things you're doing. But before we do that, I want to read a little bit more about Eric so you hear about all these awesome things that he's doing. And Eric is an accomplished leader of international businesses and associations focused on talent, assessment, and success. Eric recently stepped away from a CEO role where he worked to build a SaaS company into a multimillion-dollar international assessment software business. Eric also led industry and standards initiatives to promote best practices for assessment learning and interoperability.
He currently serves as the chair of the IEEE recommended practice for defining competencies. Eric has previously served on boards and worked on groups that have included HR open standards that define interoperability, standards for HR technology, the association of test publishers, and the European Association of Test Publishers which represents providers of tests and assessment tools. Eric is an accomplished public speaker and currently serves as the executive director of the Talent Transformation Guild. Eric, are you ready to speak to the I AM CEO community?
02:03 - Eric Shepherd
I am looking forward to it.
02:05 - Gresham Harkless
Awesome. Well, let's do it then. So to kind of kick everything off, I know I touched a little bit on your background and all the awesome work that led you to where you are today. Could you take us through what I like to call your CEO story? We'll let you get started with all this awesome work.
02:16 - Eric Shepherd
Yeah, sure. So as you might be able to tell from my accent, I'm originally from the UK. I stumbled into the IT industry kind of early on in my life. And in that, I ended up being on a board of directors in the UK in my 20s. And with that got transferred to the US. An interesting story there is that, the day that I arrived, the previous CEO had emptied the bank accounts. And so I started kind of taking over a business with no money. But luckily I had the backing of the original he, then, we were a subsidiary of a British company. So, but that was kind of interesting, you know, you can imagine flying to a new country, assuming the management of staff and direction strategy, and then realizing that there wasn't any money in the bank and having to go back.
And so that was an interesting period. I then worked to build a team, build the software distribution, and got involved in sales support to help some large distributors of the products and distribute the software product throughout the United States. Learned a lot about comparing contrasting cultures between the UK and the US, And so developed this understanding of doing technology transfers from other countries into the US, because I got this understanding of culture. So I started a business called International Presence. And that what that business was to do was represent overseas companies here in the US, but dressed them up in US-looking clothes.
So the people thought they were working with a US company and were very successful in that during the nineties and ended up buying and selling some companies in that model. I got involved with a company called Question Mark. Originally as a distributor, it was part of this international presence representation. And we were kind of having a lot of fun together and learning a lot together. So I ended up being the CEO of that company and took it from small beginnings, selling DOS software, Windows software, Macintosh software, and built it up into an installable software and SaaS business, software as a service business, where people could develop and deliver and report on assessment.
So I learned a lot about assessing people's knowledge and skills and whether they could do things. And there was a, from a CEO standpoint, we went through a lot of different phases together. So we had to deal with the 9-11 and the impact on our business through 9-11. We had to go through, unfortunately, some passing of key staff in the middle of our boom periods. We then went through the consolidations that were driven by the 2008 financial crisis and then pulled out of that and transitioned customers into a software-as-a-service platform. And all of these are kind of challenging.
And so I learned a lot about myself and others during that period. Then got to a point where, although I was traveling the world meeting wonderful people around the world, many countries, and we were delivering tens of millions of tests and exams around the world, helping a lot of people achieve great things, I started to find myself in a Groundhog Day situation. I'd wake up and feel like I was doing the same thing. So we developed a plan that I could leave the business and kind of come back and refine myself in order to pursue something that would be much more stimulating than just operating on the ground the whole day.
06:02 - Gresham Harkless
I want to drill down a little here a little bit more on what you're doing with the Talent Transformation Guild. Could you take us through a little bit more about that and how you're serving the clients you're working with?
06:10 - Eric Shepherd
Yeah, absolutely. So, I sat down from a previous CEO role and that was all about assessing knowledge and skills. What I was really intrigued by was how we assess personalities, emotional intelligence, and behavior. So the kind of softer side of the world. And we could see that the fourth industrial revolution was coming along, and that was going to change a lot of job roles and the tasks that we do. And so we knew that assessing softer skills or mindset was going to be a key part. So I spent the first few months learning and studying and going on courses and getting certified, getting certified as a coach, so I could understand that those aspects and being a CEO on one side and then understanding coaching on the other was a really useful economic.
I then started talking to people about how we fit kind of hard skills and soft skills or mindset and skillset, how we fit that together to help the C-suite and managers understand what underpins behaviors in the workplace, etc. So I spent time talking with friends, having people over for dinner, and just focusing on this issue and came up with this thing called the Talent Transformation Pyramid. And Talent Transformation Pyramid is a way of illustrating what supports behaviors on the job and what supports capabilities, how we can put that into competencies, and how those competencies will then drive outcomes and recognize there's a place for swap analysis and allocating resources, but we focus very much on this talent aspect and how it's gonna change.
So developed this picture, the Talent Transformation Pyramid, and people loved it. And they said, well, you can't just leave this here. You've got to write something more about this. So I wrote a book and the book's called Talent Transformation, how to Develop People for the 21st Century. It's not the full title, talent transformation, Eric Shepard, you'll find it on Amazon. And so it drilled into each one of the factors that impact our performance on the job. So what are our underlying personality traits? And, and, and what's the, what can we change? What can't, what we can't change? And then how can we layer on top of that emotional intelligence?
So just as I said, going onto stage, I was feeling tired and cranky, but I just had to turn it on to put on that veneer and step up by my game to do it. That kind of emotional intelligence allows you to do that. You understand yourself, you understand others. And then depending on the situation, you'll behave differently. We all know if we go to a sports game, we'll behave in one way. We go to a fine dining restaurant, we'll behave another way. When we're in a boardroom, we behave another way. So this is all situational. And so helping people recognize this stuff is all teased out in this book.
So we wrote the book and then people were saying to us, well, but the world's changing so quickly. We need help with this about staying relevant as the world is changing. So could you give us some information feeds about that? So we started setting up podcasts and webcasts and blog articles to help people understand what's changing as far as technology, how it's impacting the world in business models, and the way we deal with the talent within an organization.
So do we build talent? Do we buy in the talent with consultants? Do we use gig workers? Or do we put it off to technology, to automation? We say, well, all these tasks we're doing, It's silly, we do them, let's get a computer to do them. So that's what the Talent Transformation Guild does. It brings this information together to help people stay relevant during all this dramatic change, specifically for the future of work, learning, and leadership.
10:01 - Gresham Harkless
I guess I wanted to ask, do you consider that to be what I call your secret sauce? The thing you feel kind of sets either you or your organization apart and makes it unique. Is it that ability to kind of see that, but also I think be able to communicate that in so many different ways? So it just also arms the people with the ability to be able to navigate a lot of those changes?
10:19 - Eric Shepherd
I think part of the secret sauce, so the answer is yes, and to expand on that a little more, part of the secret sauce is that I think if we don't get this transition right into the fourth industrial revolution where AI and machine learning are taking over so many jobs. If we don't get it right, there's going to be a lot of people feeling disenfranchised. And as I would head into retirement, I don't want to have social unrest. I want people to enjoy their work and their social lives. And so the contribution that I can make is by helping people understand this information. So part of it, I think, is that having a reason to be passionate about something is part of a secret sauce.
In previous organizations, when I've been passionate about something, it doesn't feel like work. It feels like it's a calling and it's a mission. So I think part of it is kind of get grounded in yourself, but what's real, what are you really doing it for? If you're really doing it for money, you're probably going to find that dissatisfying unless you can connect the money to doing something like I want to help my family live a better life or I want to contribute to charity or something. So there is a way to a purpose through money. But understanding your purpose will kind of get you up in the morning and deal with the daily hassles that we have to deal with.
11:37 - Gresham Harkless
Yeah, absolutely. And so I want to switch gears a bit and ask you for what I call a CEO hack. So this could be like an Apple book or a habit that you have, but what's something that makes you more effective and efficient?
11:49 - Eric Shepherd
So one thing is I love book summaries in different guises. I do love audiobooks from Audible, so I can get the collective wisdom of the crowd. The challenge with audiobooks is they could be between 5 and 8 hours and typically I'll get 3 or 4 kinds of inspiring ideas out of the book. So it's a, you know, it's kind of use a lot of time in order to get that. But then there are other ways out there of getting similar kinds of information to help you. And YouTube is a great resource. You put in the keywords of a puzzle into YouTube and it's gonna come up with a video.
12:32 - Gresham Harkless
Gresham Harkless: Awesome, awesome, awesome. So now I wanted to ask you for what I call a CEO nugget. So this could be a word of wisdom or a piece of advice. It might be something if you were to hop into a time machine you would tell your younger business self or you might even recommend this or say this to a client.
12:45 - Eric Shepherd
One of the things I would like to say to my younger self is to learn about emotional intelligence sooner rather than later so that you can understand yourself, you can understand others. And there are some very basic and simple things to understand kind of the neuroscience, the biology of the brain, of how you will be triggered into fight or flight, and then recognizing that, recognizing your emotions and behaviors, and so, and just, and making a conscious decision about what's the most effective thing to do at the time, regardless of what emotions you might be experiencing, to search for that, the desired outcome.
13:28 - Gresham Harkless
Awesome, Awesome, Awesome. Well, I want to ask you now my absolute favorite question, which is the definition of what it means to be a CEO. And we're hoping to have different quote-unquote CEOs on the show. So Eric, what does being a CEO mean to you?
13:39 - Eric Shepherd
I think it's dealing with the realities of a business as far as the key metrics, customer satisfaction, financial metrics, ensuring you have the systems and processes to be efficient and learning, and helping your people develop. So that's kind of balanced scorecard stuff. And that provides dashboards to help you keep focused on being successful, but then also being the coach and the nurturer. one metaphor that I enjoyed was that a gardener doesn't go around a gardener and dig up plants to see how well they're doing. They nurture them, you know, some might even talk to them, but they're a little crazy, but they would water them and make sure that they have fertilizer.
And that's what we need to do with the people around us. We don't, there are times when we've got to hold people accountable, and we've got to hold them to account. And there are times when we've got to coach them and hopefully envision the kind of missing piece of the jigsaw that they have and why they're not progressing or producing the way we'd like them to. So having that coaching, it's kind of the person who lives between coaching everyone to be successful and paying attention to the metrics to drive the business the way the stakeholders want business to be driven.
14:57 - Gresham Harkless
Eric, truly appreciate that definition. I appreciate your time even more. What I wanted to do is just pass you the mic, so to speak, just to see if there's anything additional you can let our readers and listeners know. And of course, how best they can get out of you, get a copy of the book, find out about all the awesome things that you're working on.
15:11 - Eric Shepherd
Well, thank you so much, Gresham. So if you found this interesting, Talenttransformation.com is the website, and talenttransformation.com slash book will take you to information about the book or you could just search on Amazon for Talent Transformation and Eric Shepherd And you're welcome to reach out to me. The spelling of my last name is often changed. Shepherd is one of those words you can spell multiple ways. So if you just do Eric at talenttransformation.com, you're very welcome to email me. Hopefully, you got the sense. I really enjoy helping people, especially when they're looking to improve their performance as a CEO or they're looking to the future and trying to work out how they're going to deal with new business models and new talent models, et cetera. So feel free to reach out to me and thank you so much, Gresh.
16:00 - Gresham Harkless
I definitely appreciate you, Eric. We will have the links and information in the show notes. And I think one of the things that we often hear is the only constant change. And one of the ways to be, you know, aware of that and in sync with that is to continue to kind of sharpen our saw, so to speak. So I love that you have so much content and information that's available to leaders, you know, to be able to kind of arm themselves as much as possible to be successful. So definitely appreciate you for scratching the surface a little bit on this podcast as well, my friend, and I hope you have a phenomenal day.
16:25 - Outro
Thank you for listening to the I AM CEO Podcast powered by Blue 16 Media. Tune in next time and visit us at iamceo.co I AM CEO is not just a phrase, it's a community. Be sure to follow us on social media and subscribe to our podcast on iTunes Google Play and everywhere you listen to podcasts, SUBSCRIBE, and leave us a five-star rating grab CEO gear at www.ceogear.co. This has been the I AM CEO Podcast with Gresham Harkless. Thank you for listening.
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