Brad Smith is the founder and CEO of Codeless, a content production company whose content has been highlighted by The New York Times, Business Insider, The Next Web, and thousands more. He is also the co-founder of uSERP, a digital PR company that helps connect its clients with leading SaaS, eCommerce, SEO, tech, business, and marketing sites to boost brand authority. Fast.
- CEO Hack: Getting other people to execute on my idea and make it better
- CEO Nugget: Simplify your life and don't over-think where you are
- CEO Defined: Being comfortable at being bad at best
Website: http://www.getcodeless.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/getcodeless
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/getcodeless/
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Transcription
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00:02 – Intro
Do you want to learn effective ways to build relationships, generate sales, and grow your business from successful entrepreneurs, startups, and CEOs without listening to a long, long, long interview? If so, you've come to the right place. Gresham Harkless values your time and is ready to share with you precisely the information you're in search of. This is the I AM CEO Podcast.
00:30 – Gresham Harkless:
Hello. Hello. Hello. This is Gresh from the I AM CEO podcast and I have a very special guest on the show today. I have Brad Smith of Codeless. Brad, it's awesome to have you on the show.
00:38 – Brad Smith
Thanks, Gresh, looking forward to it.
00:40 – Gresham Harkless
No problem. Super excited to have you on. And before we jump down, I want to read a little bit more about Brad so you can hear about all the awesome things that he's doing. Brad is the founder and CEO of Codeless, a content production company whose content has been highlighted by the New York Times, Business Insider, the Next Web, and thousands more. He's a co-founder of Usurp, a digital PR company that helps connect its clients with leading SaaS, e-commerce, SEO, tech, business, and marketing sites to boost brand authority fast. Brad, are you ready to speak to the I AM CEO community?
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01:08 – Brad Smith
Yes, let's get going.
01:09 – Gresham Harkless
Let's do it. So to kick everything off, I wanted to rewind the clock a little bit here, a little bit more on how you got started. Could you take us through what I call your SEO story will let you get started with your business.
01:19 – Brad Smith
Yeah, for sure. I'll try to give you a short version of it. A long, long time ago in college, I thought I was going to go into real estate like finance and investment. My dad had a commercial real estate company. The financial crisis hit not long after I graduated from college so obviously some of those plans changed but during that time working there I started to redevelop his website I was working with a friend of mine who was studying basic HTML and CSS and JavaScript back in the day and we redeveloped his website And I started learning about all these new technologies like SEO and all this stuff. And this was like, I don't know, mid-2000s.
So it was like still a little early in the game. And I thought it was crazy that you could acquire customers like this as opposed to like, at that time, me a college kid or fresh out of college trying to go to a trade show and like you know so like all these old dudes who probably had no time for me and so I kind of started to get into it then and I joined a couple of tech companies and then a travel company and then eventually as I was doing that started building up my own client base just friends and family kind of like how most people probably start in this industry where Friends and family and people start finding out what you do and they want your help and you're pretty cheap at that point So you're happy to do it and they're happy to pay you.
But then it was in I was we were doing SEO for a while and doing codeless for a while as kind of like a classic full-service agency, or at least we try, we attempted to. But that's difficult, especially in SEO, where it's getting increasingly competitive and more difficult and nuanced. And so after Panda and Penguin and all those things started happening, I took a step back and said, okay, how do we just focus on what, where I think we're really, really good? And then from there, that's almost like, CODELYS had been around longer, but that's almost like the point of where I think CODELYS was like reborn, and the last, you know, 6, 7 years have been on a much different trajectory if that makes sense.
03:07 – Gresham Harkless
Yeah, that makes perfect sense. I'm having visions of a Phoenix rising up and being reinvented into something completely new. But no, I think that's absolutely awesome, because I think, as you said, it almost feels like a cheat in the way that people are looking for stuff and to kind of always say, skate to where the puck is not to where the puck is going to be, and kind of seeing where people are searching for stuff, how they're searching for stuff. And because SEO could be so broad, having that ability to be able to kind of niche down and do what you do best is pretty awesome.
03:34 – Brad Smith
For sure, yeah. It creates a lot of problems too when you're trying to do too much. So you don't know how to hire, you don't know how to work on messaging for what your company does and how you sell and it affects pricing because you're competing with all the other MeToo agencies, MeToo in a sense of like copycat. And so yeah, there's this trickle-down effect that you don't realize until you go through it. And I was really focused on, number one, enjoying my life. So now I'm sitting here in a tank top in Palm Springs doing this interview, which is fun. Then I'll have to do all the drudgery anymore. But the other part of that was like, I want to be good at what we're doing and stand behind it. And I don't want to sell something or work on something I don't believe in either. So we need to be extremely good at whatever we're going to do.
04:09 – Gresham Harkless
Yeah. And a lot of times the best way to do that is to be able to kind of hunker down and focus. So I absolutely love that. So I know I touched on it a little bit when I read your bio you did as well too. Can you take us through exactly what that niche is? How exactly are you running CO-List and how do you support the clients you work with?
04:24 – Gresham Harkless
Yeah, definitely. We're kind of like a weird hybrid of a content marketing agency, but also like a publisher because we do a lot of high-volume stuff. And so I like to say we do content production. And what that means is usually when clients hire us, we have like a team of people working on their account. So we have writers, editors, strategy people, account managers, designers, those usually at least 4 to 5 people on each account. And we do somewhere around 250 articles a month. And so we're talking thousands of articles a year and
04:52 -Brad Smith
We've been doing that now for several years. And so depending on the industry you're in, we tend to work in a lot of competitive industries. So tech, finance, cybersecurity, And especially when there's like venture capital or like huge amounts of money coming into some of these companies, and they need to grow extremely quickly. That usually means that usually translates into they need to do a ton of stuff to get that flywheel of customer acquisition moving quickly. And they don't have time to wait around.
So they don't have time to just do 3 average blog posts a month. They need to they need this machine to be built into their organization. And that's essentially what we do. And that's kind of how we're a little different from like a team of freelancers or and then kind of like a hybrid approach of managing an in-house person externally or other agencies who might be really good but focus more on strategy, not on execution, but kind of like somewhere in the middle of all those entities, I guess.
05:39 – Gresham Harkless
Yeah, that makes so much sense. And I love that it sounds like you already kind of have the machine built, so to speak. And it sounds like it could kind of plug into the teams that already are looking to get that boost in their brand, their publicity, and everything all extremely fast.
05:54 – Brad Smith
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So like I said, we've been doing it now for a while and kind of perfecting it. We just did 70 articles for one company in like two and a half weeks. With very little kind of like front-end onboarding and stuff. It was very much like, you got to just jump into it and keep moving. And so the only way we're able to do that is because we already have the network of writers and how to structure content as templates and build things to scale. And again, have the people in place. You have editors focused on what they're good at, you have writers focused on what they're good at. You don't have people getting pulled in different directions. So it is very much like this detailed process and collection of systems that we then could go in and modify for each kind of client.
06:34 – Gresham Harkless
Yeah. And that's huge. It definitely sounds like everybody's in, their zone of genius, so to speak. They get an opportunity to focus, as you mentioned, that you're not kind of pulled in different directions as each member can be when you're trying to do, you know, 10 different things. It allows you to really niche down and be able to kind of crank out, I guess, a lot of content or whatever it is that you're just trying to accomplish.
06:52 – Brad Smith
Yeah, definitely. So one of the early ideas that I took this from was how professional restaurants are organized. So you have different people working different stations. You have one person working kind of the lines, I think stuff that comes out. It's very much like a hierarchy, or not a hierarchy in the sense of like, what kind of managers were very flat and horizontal and people kind of like manage themselves to a large degree. But there is very much a, let's find out what people are good at and then just have them do that. So our internal writers produce way more than any in-house writers usually do at other companies and part of that is because we tell them that you don't need to sit on the spot all day.
You don't need to email us you don't need to email clients, you don't need to go on the phone with clients. Like we that's the account manager's role. So we try to structure everything. On the account management side, and in other agencies, account managers or project managers often just like email people and interact with people. They don't like to know what's going on. They don't actually know or understand what things are at this phase and they'll be done by this day or they will answer a client's questions. I really want to make sure that how we structure things is very important because it's the people we hire and everything else it just makes everything much clearer and simpler. And ultimately it means we're able to produce better stuff for clients and make them happier hopefully. And it takes a lot of time, there's less errors ultimately.
08:05 – Gresham Harkless
Yeah, absolutely. It kind of definitely reminds me of the book, The E-Myth. And I don't know if you've ever seen the Netflix movie, The Founder, where it kind of talks about the beginning of McDonald's and how he created a system so that people were doing exactly what it is that they were kind of focused on doing their best at doing it starts to create this kind of streamlined approach to be able to kind of serve the client at the best possible ability.
08:26 – Brad Smith
Yeah, definitely. So I've been self-employed for like almost around 10 years, something like that. And the first like 6 I did it wrong. So the last like so yeah, it very much was a product of like, doing it wrong, not understanding why I couldn't scale not understanding why clients were happy. When I thought we had all the things in place. And so it was very much like, learning lessons the hard way and then tearing it down to the studs and kind of rebuilding it in the right way. And then that's when things take off. And I think it's a byproduct of telling you you're in the right direction if that makes sense. So yeah, very much, sometimes you just need to get out of your own way.
09:00 – Gresham Harkless
Yeah, absolutely. And sometimes hard to do that, especially if you had the train rolling a certain way. Sometimes the hardest thing to do is to tear it to the studs, as you said, and rebuild something that's even bigger and better and more effective and efficient. And so I wanted to ask you now for what I call your secret sauce. And this could be for you personally or your business or a combination of both. But what do you feel kind of sets you apart and makes you unique?
09:20 – Brad Smith
I think our extreme kind of specialization has worked really well for us. So when I found success with scaling code lists and taking something really difficult, like quality content, which can be subjective, and scaling it. Well, we took a very specific approach of like, we're just going to do one type of content. We're just going to work for one type of client or one type of industry. And we're going to have that means we're gonna hire one type of writer. And so it got and we're only gonna have one rate structure. As it got very, it started out as very, very, very, very narrow and specialized and it's adjusted as we've grown because the team's bigger and can handle more diversity in a sense of like, you know, being able to tackle different challenges.
So we can do different types of content now we can work in different industries But a lot of things are still holding true where like we don't have a fast rider right for finance We go out and hire just finance riders for finance. And so we still try to hold a lot of those Specializations and those things in place because, at the end of the day, it is what helps make us somewhat unique even against other kinds of direct competitors. But what we do in the way we do it is very different. And sometimes we often don't do things that they do too. So you're bringing up a bunch of good book examples.
But Another 1 here is like motion strategy where it's like, these things we're gonna do similarly to competitors or the rest of the market. These things we're gonna completely drop and not even worry about. And these things we're gonna take to some extreme OCD level and charge way more than most people do. And if you do it right, and if you are constantly iterating based on the feedback and the feedback from customers and the results you're getting, then it becomes a lot easier over time.
10:55 – Gresham Harkless
Absolutely love that. And I wanted to switch gears a little bit. And I wanted to ask you for what I call a CEO hack. So this could be like an Apple book or habit that you have, but what's something that makes you more effective and efficient?
11:05 – Brad Smith
Yeah, definitely. So I'll try to list a couple of things off the top of my head. One of them for sure would be getting better at processing the system. I, a lot of people in this line of work anyway, that I think they are really good at like what they do. They're not like, like middle managers who just like, push paper all day. And so I always like I liked writing, I like doing SEO, I like I got really good at those, like, critical kind of part. But what always held me back for a long time was understanding how I work through other people.
But today, I don't do any real work. I just fill the phone all day. But how do I, how do I get other people to do like execute my idea and then build on it to make it better without me having to get involved in diving in the weeds and everything? And so even though we're a smaller company, it's still very much like that, where I'm not really involved in like the day-to-day of most things. And so usually processing systems come back to like the emails you mentioned, work the system is another really good one.
12:01 – Gresham Harkless
Absolutely love that. And so now I wanted to ask you for what I call a CEO nugget. And this could be a word of wisdom or a piece of advice. It might be something you would tell a client or if you hopped into a time machine, you might tell your younger business self.
12:12 – Brad Smith
I think sometimes people, especially founders and CEOs need to stop overcomplicating things. And so a lot of times we have these grand ambitions that we're really in no place to execute because we don't have the team, the time, the money, like all the things. A lot of times too though, I think, we try to overcomplicate things. And so for example, when I originally started an agency, a couple of long time ago, it was very different. And we worked with clients in different industries, and we tried to deliver different services. And we tried to, and then you read about all the agencies that grow fast or the really good ones or the other types of service, the best advice from service professionals.
And they're always talking about like, well, you should specialize more. And then you go, oh yeah, yeah, I should specialize more. And then you don't do it, because you're like, oh, well, I still kind of like working in travel and retail. Because it's kind of fun, because you're like, but that's not how you go to a successful business. That's how you, that's cool if your approach is one thing. If your approach is, I wanna do the work myself, I wanna stay small, I wanna, and there's nothing wrong with that. But if you're trying to get a project, I want to build a business on the team on a scale, you need to get out of your own way again, you need to get your head and just listen to other people and do what they're telling you. And even if it hurts.
So a lot of times, I think we, especially founders and CEOs are very optimistic people. So it's very easy for us to lie to ourselves about things and say, it's going to be better tomorrow. Or if just that one client would have signed or that one prospect would have signed or if, whatever, this one thing would have been different then everything would have been great. And oh yeah, next month, like whenever record month, sometimes you just need to kind of like accept reality a little more and, simplify your life a little more and don't overthink kind of where you're at.
13:53 – Gresham Harkless
Definitely appreciate that Nugget. And so now I wanted to ask you my absolute favorite question which is the definition of what it means to be a CEO and we're hoping to have different quote-unquote CEOs on the show. So Brad what does being a CEO mean to you?
14:03 – Brad Smith
You have to be comfortable with being bad at stuff. So a lot of times in most companies, in most organizations, if you get good at something, they keep you there or they promote you in that little space. And it makes total sense because like if you're good at something and you do more of it and typically the company You know, whatever makes more money
14:22 – Gresham Harkless:
Brad truly appreciates that definition. I appreciate your time even more what I wanted to do is patch the mic So to speak just to see if there's anything additional you can let our readers and listeners know and of course how best they can get out of you and find out about all the awesome things you maintain while working on.
14:35 – Brad Smith
Yeah, definitely. So our main site is codeless.com. As I mentioned, we do content production. Happy to talk about all this stuff. You can find me on LinkedIn. I believe my username on there or whatever it's called is BSMarketer for my initials. And yeah, that's one of the best ways to usually get a hold of me. Happy to talk about all this kind of stuff. Cause I think one of the reasons I want, I wanted to jump on this was cause I think a lot of times founders and stories, everything you hear is geared towards the success and the extreme. And that's usually not reality. And so I like talking about this, this kind of stuff that other people don't talk about a sense of how people actually got to those points without glossing over all the gory details and just focusing on like the fun shiny stuff that you know happened after 10 years.
It's like when you read a biography and they talk about this kid growing up through high school through college and then all of a sudden you fast forward like when they're 40 and they're like are you successful? And you're like wait what the hell happened to the middle? Exactly. How did they go from new college graduates to multi-million dollar CEOs, whatever? So yeah, I think it's important that people focus and kind of explain how it really is because it is really difficult and you don't always have that compass where you're not exactly sure what direction you're supposed to be going in. So I'm always happy to chat in detail about this stuff.
15:52 – Gresham Harkless
Well, I definitely appreciate that, Brad. We will have the links and information in the show notes and you're right. Because so many times you don't know if you're going the right way, because you never see that aspect of people's stories. And so I appreciate you for being transparent, for talking about the struggles, because I usually say life isn't all sunshine and rainbows and business is not either, because there's a lot of ups and downs and in topsy turvy times for sure. So I appreciate you for reminding us of that and reminding us of how that is, the way to kind of get towards success. And I appreciate you again, and I hope you have a great rest of the day.
16:22 – Outro
Thank you for listening to the I AM CEO Podcast powered by Blue 16 Media. Tune in next time and visit us at iamceo.co I AM CEO is not just a phrase, it's a community. Be sure to follow us on social media and subscribe to our podcast on iTunes Google Play and everywhere you listen to podcasts, SUBSCRIBE, and leave us a five-star rating grab CEO gear at www.ceogear.co. This has been the I AM CEO Podcast with Gresham Harkless. Thank you for listening.
00:02 - Intro
Do you want to learn effective ways to build relationships, generate sales, and grow your business from successful entrepreneurs, startups, and CEOs without listening to a long, long, long interview? If so, you've come to the right place. Gresham Harkless values your time and is ready to share with you precisely the information you're in search of. This is the I AM CEO Podcast.
00:30 - Gresham Harkless: Hello. Hello. Hello. This is Gresh from the I AM CEO podcast and I have a very special guest on the show today. I have Brad Smith of Codeless. Brad, it's awesome to have you on the show.
00:38 - Brad Smith
Thanks, Gresh, looking forward to it.
00:40 - Gresham Harkless
No problem. Super excited to have you on. And before we jump down, I want to read a little bit more about Brad so you can hear about all the awesome things that he's doing. Brad is the founder and CEO of Codeless, a content production company whose content has been highlighted by the New York Times, Business Insider, the Next Web, and thousands more. He's a co-founder of Usurp, a digital PR company that helps connect its clients with leading SaaS, e-commerce, SEO, tech, business, and marketing sites to boost brand authority fast. Brad, are you ready to speak to the I AM CEO community?
01:08 - Brad Smith
Yes, let's get going.
01:09 - Gresham Harkless
Let's do it. So to kick everything off, I wanted to rewind the clock a little bit here, a little bit more on how you got started. Could you take us through what I call your SEO story will let you get started with your business.
01:19 - Brad Smith
Yeah, for sure. I'll try to give you a short version of it. A long, long time ago in college, I thought I was going to go into real estate like finance and investment. My dad had a commercial real estate company. The financial crisis hit not long after I graduated from college so obviously some of those plans changed but during that time working there I started to redevelop his website I was working with a friend of mine who was studying basic HTML and CSS and JavaScript back in the day and we redeveloped his website And I started learning about all these new technologies like SEO and all this stuff. And this was like, I don't know, mid-2000s.
So it was like still a little early in the game. And I thought it was crazy that you could acquire customers like this as opposed to like, at that time, me a college kid or fresh out of college trying to go to a trade show and like you know so like all these old dudes who probably had no time for me and so I kind of started to get into it then and I joined a couple of tech companies and then a travel company and then eventually as I was doing that started building up my own client base just friends and family kind of like how most people probably start in this industry where Friends and family and people start finding out what you do and they want your help and you're pretty cheap at that point So you're happy to do it and they're happy to pay you.
But then it was in I was we were doing SEO for a while and doing codeless for a while as kind of like a classic full-service agency, or at least we try, we attempted to. But that's difficult, especially in SEO, where it's getting increasingly competitive and more difficult and nuanced. And so after Panda and Penguin and all those things started happening, I took a step back and said, okay, how do we just focus on what, where I think we're really, really good? And then from there, that's almost like, CODELYS had been around longer, but that's almost like the point of where I think CODELYS was like reborn, and the last, you know, 6, 7 years have been on a much different trajectory if that makes sense.
03:07 - Gresham Harkless
Yeah, that makes perfect sense. I'm having visions of a Phoenix rising up and being reinvented into something completely new. But no, I think that's absolutely awesome, because I think, as you said, it almost feels like a cheat in the way that people are looking for stuff and to kind of always say, skate to where the puck is not to where the puck is going to be, and kind of seeing where people are searching for stuff, how they're searching for stuff. And because SEO could be so broad, having that ability to be able to kind of niche down and do what you do best is pretty awesome.
03:34 - Brad Smith
For sure, yeah. It creates a lot of problems too when you're trying to do too much. So you don't know how to hire, you don't know how to work on messaging for what your company does and how you sell and it affects pricing because you're competing with all the other MeToo agencies, MeToo in a sense of like copycat. And so yeah, there's this trickle-down effect that you don't realize until you go through it. And I was really focused on, number one, enjoying my life. So now I'm sitting here in a tank top in Palm Springs doing this interview, which is fun. Then I'll have to do all the drudgery anymore. But the other part of that was like, I want to be good at what we're doing and stand behind it. And I don't want to sell something or work on something I don't believe in either. So we need to be extremely good at whatever we're going to do.
04:09 - Gresham Harkless
Yeah. And a lot of times the best way to do that is to be able to kind of hunker down and focus. So I absolutely love that. So I know I touched on it a little bit when I read your bio you did as well too. Can you take us through exactly what that niche is? How exactly are you running CO-List and how do you support the clients you work with?
04:24 - Gresham Harkless
Yeah, definitely. We're kind of like a weird hybrid of a content marketing agency, but also like a publisher because we do a lot of high-volume stuff. And so I like to say we do content production. And what that means is usually when clients hire us, we have like a team of people working on their account. So we have writers, editors, strategy people, account managers, designers, those usually at least 4 to 5 people on each account. And we do somewhere around 250 articles a month. And so we're talking thousands of articles a year and
04:52 -Brad Smith
We've been doing that now for several years. And so depending on the industry you're in, we tend to work in a lot of competitive industries. So tech, finance, cybersecurity, And especially when there's like venture capital or like huge amounts of money coming into some of these companies, and they need to grow extremely quickly. That usually means that usually translates into they need to do a ton of stuff to get that flywheel of customer acquisition moving quickly. And they don't have time to wait around.
So they don't have time to just do 3 average blog posts a month. They need to they need this machine to be built into their organization. And that's essentially what we do. And that's kind of how we're a little different from like a team of freelancers or and then kind of like a hybrid approach of managing an in-house person externally or other agencies who might be really good but focus more on strategy, not on execution, but kind of like somewhere in the middle of all those entities, I guess.
05:39 - Gresham Harkless
Yeah, that makes so much sense. And I love that it sounds like you already kind of have the machine built, so to speak. And it sounds like it could kind of plug into the teams that already are looking to get that boost in their brand, their publicity, and everything all extremely fast.
05:54 - Brad Smith
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So like I said, we've been doing it now for a while and kind of perfecting it. We just did 70 articles for one company in like two and a half weeks. With very little kind of like front-end onboarding and stuff. It was very much like, you got to just jump into it and keep moving. And so the only way we're able to do that is because we already have the network of writers and how to structure content as templates and build things to scale. And again, have the people in place. You have editors focused on what they're good at, you have writers focused on what they're good at. You don't have people getting pulled in different directions. So it is very much like this detailed process and collection of systems that we then could go in and modify for each kind of client.
06:34 - Gresham Harkless
Yeah. And that's huge. It definitely sounds like everybody's in, their zone of genius, so to speak. They get an opportunity to focus, as you mentioned, that you're not kind of pulled in different directions as each member can be when you're trying to do, you know, 10 different things. It allows you to really niche down and be able to kind of crank out, I guess, a lot of content or whatever it is that you're just trying to accomplish.
06:52 - Brad Smith
Yeah, definitely. So one of the early ideas that I took this from was how professional restaurants are organized. So you have different people working different stations. You have one person working kind of the lines, I think stuff that comes out. It's very much like a hierarchy, or not a hierarchy in the sense of like, what kind of managers were very flat and horizontal and people kind of like manage themselves to a large degree. But there is very much a, let's find out what people are good at and then just have them do that. So our internal writers produce way more than any in-house writers usually do at other companies and part of that is because we tell them that you don't need to sit on the spot all day.
You don't need to email us you don't need to email clients, you don't need to go on the phone with clients. Like we that's the account manager's role. So we try to structure everything. On the account management side, and in other agencies, account managers or project managers often just like email people and interact with people. They don't like to know what's going on. They don't actually know or understand what things are at this phase and they'll be done by this day or they will answer a client's questions. I really want to make sure that how we structure things is very important because it's the people we hire and everything else it just makes everything much clearer and simpler. And ultimately it means we're able to produce better stuff for clients and make them happier hopefully. And it takes a lot of time, there's less errors ultimately.
08:05 - Gresham Harkless
Yeah, absolutely. It kind of definitely reminds me of the book, The E-Myth. And I don't know if you've ever seen the Netflix movie, The Founder, where it kind of talks about the beginning of McDonald's and how he created a system so that people were doing exactly what it is that they were kind of focused on doing their best at doing it starts to create this kind of streamlined approach to be able to kind of serve the client at the best possible ability.
08:26 - Brad Smith
Yeah, definitely. So I've been self-employed for like almost around 10 years, something like that. And the first like 6 I did it wrong. So the last like so yeah, it very much was a product of like, doing it wrong, not understanding why I couldn't scale not understanding why clients were happy. When I thought we had all the things in place. And so it was very much like, learning lessons the hard way and then tearing it down to the studs and kind of rebuilding it in the right way. And then that's when things take off. And I think it's a byproduct of telling you you're in the right direction if that makes sense. So yeah, very much, sometimes you just need to get out of your own way.
09:00 - Gresham Harkless
Yeah, absolutely. And sometimes hard to do that, especially if you had the train rolling a certain way. Sometimes the hardest thing to do is to tear it to the studs, as you said, and rebuild something that's even bigger and better and more effective and efficient. And so I wanted to ask you now for what I call your secret sauce. And this could be for you personally or your business or a combination of both. But what do you feel kind of sets you apart and makes you unique?
09:20 - Brad Smith
I think our extreme kind of specialization has worked really well for us. So when I found success with scaling code lists and taking something really difficult, like quality content, which can be subjective, and scaling it. Well, we took a very specific approach of like, we're just going to do one type of content. We're just going to work for one type of client or one type of industry. And we're going to have that means we're gonna hire one type of writer. And so it got and we're only gonna have one rate structure. As it got very, it started out as very, very, very, very narrow and specialized and it's adjusted as we've grown because the team's bigger and can handle more diversity in a sense of like, you know, being able to tackle different challenges.
So we can do different types of content now we can work in different industries But a lot of things are still holding true where like we don't have a fast rider right for finance We go out and hire just finance riders for finance. And so we still try to hold a lot of those Specializations and those things in place because, at the end of the day, it is what helps make us somewhat unique even against other kinds of direct competitors. But what we do in the way we do it is very different. And sometimes we often don't do things that they do too. So you're bringing up a bunch of good book examples.
But Another 1 here is like motion strategy where it's like, these things we're gonna do similarly to competitors or the rest of the market. These things we're gonna completely drop and not even worry about. And these things we're gonna take to some extreme OCD level and charge way more than most people do. And if you do it right, and if you are constantly iterating based on the feedback and the feedback from customers and the results you're getting, then it becomes a lot easier over time.
10:55 - Gresham Harkless
Absolutely love that. And I wanted to switch gears a little bit. And I wanted to ask you for what I call a CEO hack. So this could be like an Apple book or habit that you have, but what's something that makes you more effective and efficient?
11:05 - Brad Smith
Yeah, definitely. So I'll try to list a couple of things off the top of my head. One of them for sure would be getting better at processing the system. I, a lot of people in this line of work anyway, that I think they are really good at like what they do. They're not like, like middle managers who just like, push paper all day. And so I always like I liked writing, I like doing SEO, I like I got really good at those, like, critical kind of part. But what always held me back for a long time was understanding how I work through other people.
But today, I don't do any real work. I just fill the phone all day. But how do I, how do I get other people to do like execute my idea and then build on it to make it better without me having to get involved in diving in the weeds and everything? And so even though we're a smaller company, it's still very much like that, where I'm not really involved in like the day-to-day of most things. And so usually processing systems come back to like the emails you mentioned, work the system is another really good one.
12:01 - Gresham Harkless
Absolutely love that. And so now I wanted to ask you for what I call a CEO nugget. And this could be a word of wisdom or a piece of advice. It might be something you would tell a client or if you hopped into a time machine, you might tell your younger business self.
12:12 - Brad Smith
I think sometimes people, especially founders and CEOs need to stop overcomplicating things. And so a lot of times we have these grand ambitions that we're really in no place to execute because we don't have the team, the time, the money, like all the things. A lot of times too though, I think, we try to overcomplicate things. And so for example, when I originally started an agency, a couple of long time ago, it was very different. And we worked with clients in different industries, and we tried to deliver different services. And we tried to, and then you read about all the agencies that grow fast or the really good ones or the other types of service, the best advice from service professionals.
And they're always talking about like, well, you should specialize more. And then you go, oh yeah, yeah, I should specialize more. And then you don't do it, because you're like, oh, well, I still kind of like working in travel and retail. Because it's kind of fun, because you're like, but that's not how you go to a successful business. That's how you, that's cool if your approach is one thing. If your approach is, I wanna do the work myself, I wanna stay small, I wanna, and there's nothing wrong with that. But if you're trying to get a project, I want to build a business on the team on a scale, you need to get out of your own way again, you need to get your head and just listen to other people and do what they're telling you. And even if it hurts.
So a lot of times, I think we, especially founders and CEOs are very optimistic people. So it's very easy for us to lie to ourselves about things and say, it's going to be better tomorrow. Or if just that one client would have signed or that one prospect would have signed or if, whatever, this one thing would have been different then everything would have been great. And oh yeah, next month, like whenever record month, sometimes you just need to kind of like accept reality a little more and, simplify your life a little more and don't overthink kind of where you're at.
13:53 - Gresham Harkless
Definitely appreciate that Nugget. And so now I wanted to ask you my absolute favorite question which is the definition of what it means to be a CEO and we're hoping to have different quote-unquote CEOs on the show. So Brad what does being a CEO mean to you?
14:03 - Brad Smith
You have to be comfortable with being bad at stuff. So a lot of times in most companies, in most organizations, if you get good at something, they keep you there or they promote you in that little space. And it makes total sense because like if you're good at something and you do more of it and typically the company You know, whatever makes more money
14:22 - Gresham Harkless: Brad truly appreciates that definition. I appreciate your time even more what I wanted to do is patch the mic So to speak just to see if there's anything additional you can let our readers and listeners know and of course how best they can get out of you and find out about all the awesome things you maintain while working on.
14:35 - Brad Smith
Yeah, definitely. So our main site is codeless.com. As I mentioned, we do content production. Happy to talk about all this stuff. You can find me on LinkedIn. I believe my username on there or whatever it's called is BSMarketer for my initials. And yeah, that's one of the best ways to usually get a hold of me. Happy to talk about all this kind of stuff. Cause I think one of the reasons I want, I wanted to jump on this was cause I think a lot of times founders and stories, everything you hear is geared towards the success and the extreme. And that's usually not reality. And so I like talking about this, this kind of stuff that other people don't talk about a sense of how people actually got to those points without glossing over all the gory details and just focusing on like the fun shiny stuff that you know happened after 10 years.
It's like when you read a biography and they talk about this kid growing up through high school through college and then all of a sudden you fast forward like when they're 40 and they're like are you successful? And you're like wait what the hell happened to the middle? Exactly. How did they go from new college graduates to multi-million dollar CEOs, whatever? So yeah, I think it's important that people focus and kind of explain how it really is because it is really difficult and you don't always have that compass where you're not exactly sure what direction you're supposed to be going in. So I'm always happy to chat in detail about this stuff.
15:52 - Gresham Harkless
Well, I definitely appreciate that, Brad. We will have the links and information in the show notes and you're right. Because so many times you don't know if you're going the right way, because you never see that aspect of people's stories. And so I appreciate you for being transparent, for talking about the struggles, because I usually say life isn't all sunshine and rainbows and business is not either, because there's a lot of ups and downs and in topsy turvy times for sure. So I appreciate you for reminding us of that and reminding us of how that is, the way to kind of get towards success. And I appreciate you again, and I hope you have a great rest of the day.
16:22 - Outro
Thank you for listening to the I AM CEO Podcast powered by Blue 16 Media. Tune in next time and visit us at iamceo.co I AM CEO is not just a phrase, it's a community. Be sure to follow us on social media and subscribe to our podcast on iTunes Google Play and everywhere you listen to podcasts, SUBSCRIBE, and leave us a five-star rating grab CEO gear at www.ceogear.co. This has been the I AM CEO Podcast with Gresham Harkless. Thank you for listening.
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