IAM2949 – Author Helps Protect The Rights of Clients in the Workplace

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Transcription:

Tom Spiggle 00:00
One final thing I’d like to add, it just occurred to me, if I could jump back in that time machine and talk back to my younger business self, is, um, as a business owner, uh, at whatever level, you’re gonna make mistakes. It’s just gonna happen. It’s part of the learning curve. And to forgive yourself for making them, because the truth is there probably isn’t a mistake. I can almost guarantee it as a business owner, there isn’t a mistake that you have made that hasn’t been made 1,000, 100,000 times by somebody else. And just understanding that you are in a community of people, they’re, they’re all facing these, you know, it’s not just the struggles, but also the wins and, uh, and those things.

Gresham Harkless 01:05
This is Gresh from the I Am CEO Podcast, and I have a very special guest on my show today. I have Tom Spiggle of Spiggle Law Firm. Tom, it’s awesome to have you on the show.

Tom Spiggle 01:13
Thanks. Great to be here.

Gresham Harkless 01:15
Yeah, no problem. Super excited to have you on. And what I want to do is just read a little bit more about Tom so you can hear about all the awesome things that he’s doing. And Tom is the author of the book, You Are Pregnant. You’re Fired: Protecting Mothers, Fathers, and Other Caregivers in the Workplace. He’s the founder of Spigal Law Firm, which has offices in Arlington, Virginia, Washington, D.C., and Bethesda, Maryland, where he focuses on workplace law, helping protect the rights of clients facing pregnancy and caregiver discrimination, sexual harassment, and wrongful termination in the workplace. Tom, are you ready to speak to the I Am CEO community?

Tom Spiggle 01:48
I’m thrilled to, yes.

Gresham Harkless 01:50
All right, let’s make it happen. So to start everything off, I wanted to hear a little bit more about what I call your CEO story, and we’ll let you get started with your business.

Tom Spiggle 01:57
Yeah, so I opened my firm in 2009. I had been interested in doing that for a long time. My father was a solo practice doctor, small town doctor. So I sort of had that in my blood. And, you know, this was, you know, about the time that a lot of, a number of blogs were getting started by other attorneys who were starting their own firm. And I was reading those. I’m like, hey, that sounds like, you know, that sounds like something I’d like to do. So I started with a laptop with a cracked screen and I had, the only way I could see it was I had a, you know, an external monitor that I could hook it up to and I could actually see the screen because I left, I was at the US Attorney’s Office, so I was in the government, which was great and I enjoyed it quite a bit, but that meant I left without any clients. So I started with just that trusty laptop and kind of learned as I went along, particularly the business side of it, because I didn’t have any real training in that. And along the way, I hired a number of different coaches to help me out. Lee Rosen, who’s a fantastic lawyer coach, how to manage a small law firm. And of course, read and educated myself on how to You know, how to grow, how to, how to found and grow a business. And so that’s what we’ve done. And last year we, uh, hit the, uh, million-dollar mark for the first time in revenue, and we had another almost 50%, uh, growth this last year. So, uh, it’s been, been a wild ride.

Gresham Harkless 03:26
Yeah, it definitely sounds like it, man. I definitely appreciate you for, for taking that leap, but I also like you breaking it down because I think so many times, you know, when somebody’s trying to do something different or maybe start a business, whatever it might be, we sometimes forget that there’s people that know exactly how to do it. We can lean on as far as like experts and mentors, but also loads of resources that we can learn about so that as we are making those leaps, we can do it not to guarantee that there’s no risk, but lower the likelihood of there being like a cataclysmic failure, I guess.

Tom Spiggle 03:55
Yeah, I think that’s a great point. And I just, my advice for anybody starting out in any business, as you say, is reach out to those folks earlier rather than later. I mean, when I look back on, I could have, no, I don’t certainly, I mean, I learned lots of good lessons and I don’t regret the way things have turned out, certainly, but I could have made that growth trajectory a lot faster if I had reached— I just didn’t know and just didn’t occur to me to reach out to those coaches until I sort of stumbled upon them. And if I had done that sooner, because as you say, they’re not— you can’t guarantee success, but there are certain best practices that anybody starting and growing a business will be able to tell you, hey, do this, don’t do that, spend here, don’t spend there. And why reinvent the wheel? There’s gonna be plenty of mystery in your business no matter what. You know, let’s not make those— let’s not screw up over the basics like, uh, Nick, I did when I started out.

Gresham Harkless 04:49
Yeah, absolutely. Just reduce the likelihood of failure as much as you can, and that’s the way you can increase the likelihood of success. So definitely appreciate that. So I wanted to drill down a little bit deeper. I know I, you know, spoke about it when I introduced you, but I wanted to hear a little bit more about your law firm. Could you take us through some of the things you’re doing for the clients you’re working with?

Tom Spiggle 05:06
Yeah, no, thanks for that. So we of course represent employees only, people who’ve been fired or afraid that they might be. And one of our, the client base that we focus on are people with caregiver concerns, pregnancy discrimination, paternity leave discrimination. Because one of the things I noticed when I started my firm was that I just by happenstance ended up with a few of these clients who were, had pregnancy discrimination cases or childcare they were having problems at work because they had young children and the laws in those areas were so complicated that even a lawyer can barely figure this stuff out. How do you expect somebody who’s not a lawyer and just trying to work every day and provide for their family, how do you expect them to understand it? Which is why I wrote the book, You’re Pregnant, You’re Fired, because I wanted that to be sort of an educated client to walk them through how this works. And that’s one of the things that we focus on here is, you know, one of the, one of our key, you know, kind of our core principles is to leave people better off than when they contacted us, whether they become a client or not. Because a lot of what we find people, you know, really helps people is to educate them, to let them know what their rights are. Of course, sometimes they need an attorney to help you walk your way through those. But a lot of times people, you know, you give them the right information and they’re just so relieved to have it, or they can take steps on their own to solve their problem. You know, short of hiring an attorney, and that’s great. You know, we’re always thrilled to be able for somebody to say, hey, you know, I took these pointers and I did these things and I was able to keep my job or get a better job. Because, you know, obviously work is something so fundamental to all of us. What we do is such a part of our identity. And when you’re in trouble with that, you know, it’s a real burden on you and your family. So that’s one of the things that we focus on, people that are particularly facing caregiver or pregnancy discrimination, giving them the tools that they need. help them solve their own problems, or when they can’t, helping them hire us, and then we’ll help ’em walk ’em through those problems and get ’em to a better spot.

Gresham Harkless 07:06
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And, you know, at the end of the day, knowledge a lot of times is power. And, you know, when you’re going through, like, when you’re starting a business or you’re going through like the employment issues that, you know, you kind of spoke to, you kind of don’t know where to go, what to do. You don’t know what the next steps are. So to be able to at least have that information so that you can hire, you know, somebody like yourself or, you know, just be and be able to make informed decisions is a huge thing because I think it can be scary when you don’t know what to do and you’re depending on, you know, being able to pay your bills and the 9 to 5 to be able to do that.

Tom Spiggle 07:39
Yeah, absolutely. You know, and just to that, you know, for this audience in particular, I would say for business owners, we don’t represent businesses, but we do, you know, get a fair number of calls from small businesses in particular. Um, and what I always tell ’em is, you know what, like form a relationship with a lawyer, particularly an employment lawyer. Because we can help you with this one problem, but you really need a relationship with an attorney, with a firm. And the great thing about my brethren on the other side of the V, as we call it, who represent the companies that we’re working with, so to say, is they are, most of them are very sensitive and understand business owners. And there are all kinds of flat fee arrangements and There are just some, some really great employment lawyers that do business-level stuff, you know, or a business attorney that has employment law expertise because it is really complicated. And as a business owner, you know, you don’t need to be, you know, you need to be advised about, but you don’t need to be reading the Fair Labor Standards Act and figuring out when to pay overtime and when not to pay overtime. But you darn sure need somebody to call that you can rely on to answer those questions for you.

Gresham Harkless 08:43
Yeah, that makes so much sense. And I’ve always heard a lot, especially around a banker, like you want to develop a relationship with a banker before you need to ask for money. You need to do the same thing with a lawyer. You should have that relationship before something happens and you’re not trying to build that relationship while you’re trying to put out a huge fire.

Tom Spiggle 08:58
Exactly. And so they also, same with a banker, so they know your business, you know, so that when you pick up the phone and you call that lawyer, and it doesn’t have to be, you know, for a litigious reason, it could just be for, hey, I’m, you know, I need to come up with an employee manual, you know, will you look over my section on overtime? And they know your business and they, so they know that, You know, whatever it is, most of your employees are gonna be non-exempt. And so they don’t have to, they don’t have to jump in and figure it out cold. They can be like, okay, you know, Tom, I understand your business. I know what you do. So this is where I think we’re gonna go, go on that.

Gresham Harkless 09:28
Yeah. Makes so much sense. So now I wanted to ask you for what I call your secret sauce, and it could be for you personally or for your business. What do you feel kind of sets you apart and makes you unique?

Tom Spiggle 09:38
I think having a real understanding of our ideal client. You know, somebody who’s really a good fit for us. You know, I know this is not unique to Lard, what we do, but, you know, having your own client persona, ideal client persona, you know, who they are, where they live, not just what kind of, why they need your services, but who they are as people, you know, so that you can speak to them at places where they’re looking for information in a place that they understand, you know? So our, you know, our kind of our client persona, It’s usually an upper-level female. She’s not vice president yet, but maybe she’s close to it. She’s never had any problems at work. All of a sudden, for the first time, things are getting a little sideways. She’s not interested in running off to court first thing, but she needs to know what to do. So we’ve got that fleshed out and built out. So in all of our marketing, all of our messaging, we’re always talking to her. And that probably more than anything else has made the biggest difference for us and being able to grow and to to meet those needs. So yeah, I’d say that’s probably, and for me personally, another coach that I worked with, I don’t know if you know Dan Sullivan with Strategic Coach. I love his timekeeping system because I think as entrepreneurs, like, yes, of course there are times you need to work hard, but sort of the ideal is, well, you’re sleeping on your office floor, you’re grinding, you’re grinding, you’re grinding. And his thing is like, no, You will make more money and do better if you take some free days where you’re not checking your email, you’re not checking Slack, you’re spending time with your family or whatever it is you need to do to recharge. I still struggle with that, but I do now much more than when I started say, you know what? I’m taking the weekend off. You know what? I may check my email once a day, but I’m not turning off Slack. I need to unplug. And so that has been those 2 things. Personally, my, that, and then, you know, having our client personas, the second one.

Gresham Harkless 11:32
Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. So I wanted to switch gears a little bit and I wanted to ask you for what I call a CEO hack. So this could be like an app, a book, or a habit that you have, but what’s something that makes you more effective and efficient?

Tom Spiggle 11:44
Uh, in terms of a, uh, a book, you know, one, which is, you know, of course a, a Bible for a lot of us, uh, you small business owners, The E-Myth. I would say The E-Myth and Checklist Manifesto. are both just key ones for me that I keep coming back to. Just that idea that, you know, hey, let’s take the mystery out of what we’re doing. What’s the, you know, what’s the recipe that you use to bake the cake? And really giving that some thought and breaking it down in the constituent steps because that helps you delegate, right? Delegate those tasks that you’re not particularly strong at to find people that are in those areas. But I’d have to say the E-Myth and Checklist Manifesto, those 2 books in particular, are, are my best CEO hat.

Gresham Harkless 12:27
Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. So now I wanna ask you for what I call a CEO nugget. So that could be like a word of wisdom or a piece of advice, or if you can hop into a time machine, what would you tell your younger business self?

Tom Spiggle 12:38
Understand at an earlier stage what growth is possible.

Gresham Harkless 12:42
Awesome. So now I wanna ask you my absolute favorite question, which is the definition of what it means to be a CEO. And we’re hoping to have different quote unquote CEOs on this show. So Tom, what does being a CEO mean to you?

Tom Spiggle 12:53
Being a CEO to me means having a vision for your business and constantly communicating that to people that are working with you.

Gresham Harkless 13:00
Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Well, Tom, appreciate that. I appreciate your time even more. What I wanted to do is pass you the mic, so to speak, just to see if there’s anything additional you can let our readers and listeners know. And then of course, how best they can get a copy of your book and find out about all the awesome things you’re working on.

Tom Spiggle 13:14
Yeah, no, uh, one final thing I’d like to add, it just occurred to me if I could jump back in that time machine and talk back my younger business self is, um, as a business owner, uh, at whatever level, you’re gonna make mistakes. It’s just gonna happen. It’s part of the learning curve. And to forgive yourself for making them. Because the truth is there probably isn’t a mistake. I can almost guarantee it as a business owner, there isn’t a mistake that you have made that hasn’t been made a thousand, a hundred thousand times by somebody else. And just understanding that you are in a community of people, they’re, they’re all facing these it’s not just the struggles, but also the wins and those things. But one of the most powerful things that I got, and I would recommend this to anybody, is join a coaching group where you’re with similar business owners, is to hear them tell stories of the challenges that they faced and the wins that they’d had. And for me to be like, wow, okay, it wasn’t just me. It wasn’t just me that did that. This is a common thing that people struggle with and to not make it so personal, you know, that this is my failure, I did this, or it was my, you know, no, these are just like a child learning how to walk is going to fall and skin his or her knees. This happens. So to forgive yourself for those things, and of course to own the wins too, those are important. In terms of finding me, you know, you can certainly go to our website, which is www.spigolaw.com. You can find a copy of our book there, also on Amazon. You can find it. There’s both a hard copy and a Kindle edition book. In addition to that, we’ve also got a couple of podcasts, which you can find on our website and on iTunes. We’ve got Parents at Work, which is myself and another attorney where we’re interviewing parents in different professions and the best practices in their professions in terms of how to succeed in their career when you have children. And then we’ve also got one called I Got Fired, which is as it sounds for people who’ve been terminated or afraid they might be and help walk them through that process. But come to our website, got lots of good information there, and we’re always happy to share.

Gresham Harkless 15:18
Yeah, I definitely, you know, appreciate that. And we will have the links and information in the show notes so that everybody can follow up with you. But I appreciate that. Appreciate the reminder as well too, and jumping back into the time machine, because I think so many times we don’t give ourselves, uh, credit or allow ourselves to, to fail, understanding that’s part of the process, part of success. And when we fail, sometimes we feel like we’re alone, we’re by ourselves, and we’re the dumbest person in the room, but oftentimes everybody’s made that type of mistake and you’re not the first. You definitely won’t be the last. Finally, you just gotta know that it’s okay and then you can continue to kind of get through anything.

Tom Spiggle 15:51
Yeah, absolutely.

Gresham Harkless 15:53
Awesome. Awesome.

Gresham Harkless 15:54
Awesome.

Gresham Harkless 15:54
Well, thank you so much again, Tom. I appreciate you and I hope you have a phenomenal rest of the day.